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this hour by Frederick Remington fully

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cooked ready-to-eat bacon exclusive no

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refrigeration 10-year extended

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shelf-life bacon the thickest media

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center cut bacon in the industry at

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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg

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I think last week's episode of the power

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cast with Greg Bishop is going to serve

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as a suitable introduction to this

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week's episode where we feature the

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return of Robbie Graham and he is here

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in the capacity of an editor of a new

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book that we were talking about a little

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bit last week it's called UFO is

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reframing the debate that's a series of

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essays by a group of people many of whom

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you've heard on the show and one of

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those is joining us and that is Robert

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Branstetter welcome thank you for having

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me again

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now Robert Branstetter wrote a essay

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entitled discovering our humanity in the

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alien other I'm going to ask him about

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that

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they're also essays from Ryan Sprague

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and red pill junky by the way red pill

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was invited to join us too but his work

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schedule is preventing that Kurt Collins

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of course Joshua kuchen Micah Hanks Jack

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brewer McClellan Chris Bukowski

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with an introduction from Robbie Graeme

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we'll get the background of this book

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and what's meant to be and I think it

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may be fitting before we look at

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reframing the debate about changing the

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rules or something we should look at

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examples of what UFO research is now

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alright so here's an example of what UFO

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research is now a few days ago I got

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this book from Donald Schmidt cover-up

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at Roswell exposing the 70-year

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conspiracy to suppress the truth so

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maybe other than the 70 years I've gone

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back through time 10 years 20 years 30

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years that's an example we've had all

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this stuff going on at MUFON when one of

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their state directors and someone who is

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a co-host of the hangar one TV show was

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posting on his Facebook blog

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racially offensive comments that badly

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reflected on the organization it seemed

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to take an awful long time for muffins

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executive director Jan horizon-- to get

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rid of him and then we found out why and

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this is interesting you see there's a

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listing at MUFON of so-called lifetime

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members people who have given more than

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five thousand dollars to the

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organization and this guy who made the

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racially insensitive comments was one of

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those people so maybe it's the money

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what do you think Chris I'm not going to

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assume anything Jean but money does

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speak very loudly in a co 501c3

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organization that's constantly looking

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for operating capital and money to

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legitimize their their administrative

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process so yeah that's that's a good

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guess I think that obviously had

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something to do with it but regardless

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of that it he should have been dealt

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with very severely from the get-go there

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really is no room in an organization for

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his type of like let's put it this way

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type of behavior that's been popularized

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because of the election of our recent US

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president right but that shouldn't have

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anything to do with it if he has

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opinions like that keep it to yourself

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keep it to your circle of friends

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I'm not against freedom of speech but

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when you're speaking for an organization

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they're trying to get people interested

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in chasing after UFOs and you have to do

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this but ways worse is this blog I read

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from Kevin D Randle his different

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perspective where he mentioned that Jan

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horizion of MUFON was calling some of

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the people who were offended by this

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gentleman he's calling them haters so of

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course Nick Redfern will now have

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nothing whatever to do with MUFON and

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certainly we see that Kevin Randle won't

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either and that's what's happened you

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know they just simply have made a mess

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of the in situation this could have been

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quietly dealt with in five minutes and

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that would be apologized now and maybe

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we'll keep you on or just get out of

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here

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but all this nonsense they allow to

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happen

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and this is UFO research in the 21st

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century the premier UFO organization in

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America

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Robbie Graeme do you have anything like

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that going on the UK

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well the UK UFO scene is is a fraction

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of the size of the American North

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American UFO scene we don't really have

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an organized community over here anymore

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that there were bigger organizations

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that had considerable influence back in

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the well prior to the year 2000 I guess

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and I think it was really the internet

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over here as it as it was over there and

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everywhere that saw the dissolution of

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physical meetups and everything started

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to go online and everything started to

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become I guess probably even more

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speculative and hokum based because

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anything goes on the internet but the

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problems with with ufology

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organizationally methodologically they

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go back to the very dawn of the modern

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UFO era and so it's always been beset by

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huge huge obstacles and self-made

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obstacles I would say I mean well a lot

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of them are anyway obviously this

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obstacle of the phenomenon itself which

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defies organized investigation

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investigational attempts but the field

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itself is always been a mess now in the

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UK yeah I mean there really aren't many

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big conferences you know this probably

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only about three or four conferences a

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year

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what nationwide in the UK and the

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biggest of those today really only draws

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a maximum of a few hundred attendees

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over the course of several days so it's

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it's it's fast smaller affair over here

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and I try to stay out of the UK UFO

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community to be honest with you most of

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my dealings or all of my dealings to be

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honest are with American and Canadian

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and international researchers and

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writers I had very little to do with the

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UK scene I think a sad state of affairs

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me with the UK scene recently has been

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that it's been defined I guess by the

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Rendlesham forest case and that case

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itself as as fascinating as it is is has

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come to be defined by vicious in

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fighting between the opposing camps of

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researchers that have investigated that

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case going back to the 1980s and so it's

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it's so unattractive now that I just

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want nothing to do with it now we just

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mentioned that quickly we have our

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section in our forms the para cast forum

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about it of course we know at one point

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there was a book called left at Eastgate

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with peter robbins and larry warren the

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latter being one of the witnesses to

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Rendlesham and they've since had a

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falling out you know so even within the

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factions they can't get it together I

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mean that's what that's what that case

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has always been has always been a

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divisive one but yeah it's you know this

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book is coming out at a time as you say

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where you've had this major controversy

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with MUFON it's coming not too far on

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the back of the Roswell slides

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controversy which was last year but

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which was still a huge huge blow to

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serious UFO research to my mind was was

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pretty much the the nail in the coffin

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for firm serious you for logical

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research and and that's explored in the

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book as we get on to you know and so now

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you've had the the complete collapse of

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this case with the total separation of

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the two of the two main names associated

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with it peter robbins and larry warren

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who of course wrote the book on the

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subject i guess left at Eastgate as you

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mentioned and now you've had peter

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robbins officially separating himself

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from from larry warren and saying that

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he you know sort of admitting that he

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was misled and that you know a lot of

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what larry warren has said the core of

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his story is actually simply not true

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and so what are we left with well we

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laugh with a huge mess so what are we

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left with is peter robbins stepping up

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in saying hey i'm now aware of something

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that saw down when did denmark about all

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this and i'm going to be the first one

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to to get ahead of this and fess up that

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this larry warren guy is not what he

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made himself out to be

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i have some serious problems with his

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testimony and i think it took a

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tremendous amount of courage on the part

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of peter to do that so urology policing

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itself you know i can come up with a

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bunch of examples

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of of investigators that have have have

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come forward and said hey you know Mia

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Copa I got taken in the problem I have

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Robby is not the ones that that get

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taken in and at least admit that they're

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wrong it's the ones that are continue to

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go on in champion cases that they know

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are hoaxes let's do our break here guys

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and then we have a lot more to come with

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Jean and Chris Robby Graham Robert

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Branstetter the book is called UFOs

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reframing of the debate and you'll see

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why we're leading to that where we look

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at what's going on what's wrong and why

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we have to fix things with Jean and

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Chris you're in para cast we also have

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swag you know we have all these

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exclusive power cast things that you can

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buy we've got like I guess 60 or so

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different items and entails t-shirts

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sleeves for notebook computers iPad

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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a para cast aluminum water

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bottle all the stuff you go to store the

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power cast com store the power cast calm

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what makes special is that the items are

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the best quality of great t-shirts

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fabrics and they have our official logo

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on them that's what makes them special

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in multiple sizes and colors we even

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have stuff for children stuff for women

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stuff for men we have all sorts of sizes

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like small up 2x large lot good stuff

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that's the swag from the para cast you

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go to steward dot ^ cast comm stop by

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and take a shopping tour have you ever

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thought you'd like to flip houses but

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didn't know how or where to get the

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money are you ready to be your own boss

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so you can start living the good life hi

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I'm Preston Ely I used to be so broke I

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have my electricity turned off nine

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times but I figured out a way to quit my

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job and find financial freedom in real

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estate for a limited time I want to send

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you a free copy of my smash hit selling

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book how to get rich in real estate it

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shows you how to

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copy exactly what I did so you can make

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money from the comfort of your own home

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without even doing any manual labor I've

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already given away five thousand books

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and they're going fast to get one before

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they're gone call one eight hundred nine

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five eight six nine three six listen if

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you're sick and tired of stressing about

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comm we'd like to hear from you if you

340
00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:15,390
have a comment or question about the

341
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:18,660
para cast send it to news at the para

342
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:22,050
cast com that's news at the para cast

343
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:24,570
calm and don't forget to visit our

344
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:26,970
famous para cast community forums at

345
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:32,610
forum dot the para cast comm so let's

346
00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:35,250
continue folks this is a point that

347
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:38,190
Chris was bringing up and that is after

348
00:14:43,070 --> 00:14:40,490
the case is exposed or after the facts

349
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,080
no longer confirmed something and we're

350
00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:45,120
talking about mj-12 documents for

351
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:47,640
example with Roswell and we have people

352
00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:50,130
who have spent years touting this

353
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:54,300
evidence and suddenly it falls apart if

354
00:15:00,410 --> 00:14:57,120
Stanton Friedman ever said mj-12 is a

355
00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:00,420
fake no he keeps doing it and stan has

356
00:15:05,210 --> 00:15:02,670
done some good work but that's a problem

357
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:05,220
once people get into a situation where

358
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:08,010
they latch onto something in this field

359
00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:11,040
they never ever let it go who wants to

360
00:15:14,690 --> 00:15:13,110
say something well it becomes part of

361
00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:14,700
their identity when you when you become

362
00:15:19,550 --> 00:15:17,700
so associated with a particular case and

363
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,560
and what you were saying there Chris I

364
00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:21,420
completely agree I have huge respect for

365
00:15:28,370 --> 00:15:25,230
Peter Robbins standing up and saying you

366
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:28,380
know you know I was duped and he's been

367
00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:30,150
explicit about that and that that has

368
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:32,190
taken a huge amount of courage I can't

369
00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:33,420
think that many other people in his

370
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,100
position would do the same not in this

371
00:15:39,890 --> 00:15:37,680
field so very few that in fact I

372
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:39,900
mentioned Roswell slides both Donald's

373
00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:44,100
million in Tom Kerry have made lukewarm

374
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:46,710
sort of you know well maybe we were

375
00:15:50,510 --> 00:15:48,870
wrong in this and that and then you know

376
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:50,520
we could to later Don Schmidt start

377
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:52,530
talking about the whole thing as if it

378
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:54,810
was never debunked at a you know the

379
00:15:59,730 --> 00:15:57,210
next UFO conference he spoke at so there

380
00:16:01,830 --> 00:15:59,740
are exceptions Linda Howe

381
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:01,840
I could give you several examples of

382
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:03,850
cases that were proven to be false that

383
00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:06,180
she went on in some cases for years

384
00:16:11,250 --> 00:16:08,830
continuing to tout you know what is more

385
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:11,260
important here and this is part of

386
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,570
reframing the debate going to the title

387
00:16:19,190 --> 00:16:16,240
of your compilation book what's more

388
00:16:22,290 --> 00:16:19,200
important here fantasy science fiction

389
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:22,300
convenience stories that that ring true

390
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:26,320
in our our new-age sort of intuitional

391
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:30,010
selves or hard facts you know stuff that

392
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:32,440
you can actually maybe write a

393
00:16:38,210 --> 00:16:35,050
scientific paper about I think that

394
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:38,220
there's a real separation between

395
00:16:45,450 --> 00:16:42,250
hardcore hard scientific ufology which

396
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:45,460
you're mentioned earlier that you don't

397
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:47,680
think that there is such a thing and all

398
00:16:52,890 --> 00:16:49,690
the other stuff all the confabulation

399
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:52,900
the myth making the high crimes and

400
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:55,770
misdemeanors as far as I'm concerned in

401
00:17:01,320 --> 00:16:57,490
creative storytelling

402
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:01,330
that part of ufology is dominating right

403
00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:03,010
now but that doesn't that doesn't bring

404
00:17:08,370 --> 00:17:06,070
into I think that doesn't bring us to a

405
00:17:11,310 --> 00:17:08,380
close I think there still is a

406
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,320
tremendous opportunity for hard-boiled

407
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:13,360
researchers and investigators to

408
00:17:20,690 --> 00:17:15,910
continue on investigating the phenomenon

409
00:17:23,610 --> 00:17:20,700
as it should be I'm off my soapbox then

410
00:17:26,820 --> 00:17:23,620
Robert how about jumping in here you've

411
00:17:28,860 --> 00:17:26,830
been involved in a lot of the forum by

412
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,870
play at the power cast forums is burnt

413
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:31,440
States so certainly you have

414
00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:34,210
participated in these Wars of debate

415
00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:36,670
what are your observations yeah and I

416
00:17:40,260 --> 00:17:38,230
think that the you know the primary

417
00:17:42,780 --> 00:17:40,270
discussion piece that we're having here

418
00:17:45,210 --> 00:17:42,790
is this notion of UFO mythology and in

419
00:17:46,290 --> 00:17:45,220
Loren cuts it's that in his essay almost

420
00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:46,300
everything you think you know about

421
00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:49,030
flying saucers is wrong and he really

422
00:17:52,590 --> 00:17:50,590
identifies you know some of the major

423
00:17:54,060 --> 00:17:52,600
gaps that take place in the notion of

424
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:54,070
you know witnessed event that might be a

425
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:56,050
very profound and fascinating human

426
00:18:01,650 --> 00:17:58,960
experience versus what turns into belief

427
00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:01,660
systems around that and really the

428
00:18:06,270 --> 00:18:04,390
majority of what ufology is is a bunch

429
00:18:08,370 --> 00:18:06,280
of belief systems and storytelling and

430
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:08,380
myths that are built up around cases

431
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:10,090
that eventually people say me a culpa

432
00:18:13,789 --> 00:18:11,730
and even if they do we know that

433
00:18:17,299 --> 00:18:13,799
the picture of the Indian boy as a

434
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:17,309
mummified remains as Roswell alien

435
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:19,289
will still exist that on the internet

436
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,480
and anytime anybody says oh I was wrong

437
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:23,039
doesn't make a difference it will still

438
00:18:26,899 --> 00:18:24,240
exist because there's nothing really

439
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:26,909
that truly does support a concept of

440
00:18:31,159 --> 00:18:29,490
ufology as a true existing field of

441
00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:31,169
study and Robbie's made note about a

442
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:34,590
number of times and M Jabin eyes and his

443
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:36,809
essay talks about that as well - that

444
00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:39,600
there is no great center that there's no

445
00:18:42,889 --> 00:18:41,220
rules there's nothing that governs it

446
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:42,899
and as a consequence it hasn't gotten

447
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:45,210
anywhere because of that any attempts of

448
00:18:50,269 --> 00:18:47,970
science have been small next to minimal

449
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:50,279
and not consistent and haven't continued

450
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:53,190
so that that notion of of what we

451
00:18:58,940 --> 00:18:55,529
believe in terms of what a UFO is is

452
00:19:01,549 --> 00:18:58,950
just mired in absolute chaos and in

453
00:19:04,159 --> 00:19:01,559
consumer pop culture yeah and that's why

454
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:04,169
I front-loaded the book with pieces on

455
00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:05,010
religion

456
00:19:10,340 --> 00:19:07,769
first of all Diana Persol cos forward

457
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:10,350
for the book is looking at the parallels

458
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:12,210
with with organized religion and

459
00:19:15,379 --> 00:19:14,130
religious belief because yeah and also

460
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:15,389
then you've got Chris rutkowski is

461
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:16,799
opening essay which is also looking at

462
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,809
that as well and it's because the the

463
00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:20,880
religious aspects of UFO belief are

464
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,940
undeniable ufology is a New Age religion

465
00:19:27,620 --> 00:19:25,919
and and I'd say that you know with this

466
00:19:30,409 --> 00:19:27,630
in mind people should take caution

467
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:30,419
because powerful belief in anything can

468
00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:32,610
be exploited whether it's by sinister

469
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:34,620
government forces or by charlatans and

470
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:36,809
commercial opportunists and the UFO

471
00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:39,480
subculture as it exists today which I

472
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:41,070
would argue is actually inseparable from

473
00:19:46,009 --> 00:19:43,919
so-called legitimate ufology is built

474
00:19:48,169 --> 00:19:46,019
far less on facts and verifiable

475
00:19:51,259 --> 00:19:48,179
evidence than it is on blind belief and

476
00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:51,269
a subject such as UFOs has inherent

477
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:53,100
divine implication I have something

478
00:19:56,659 --> 00:19:54,720
that's bigger than us something that

479
00:19:59,120 --> 00:19:56,669
offers salvation and this is powerfully

480
00:20:01,220 --> 00:19:59,130
magnetic for a believer mindset you

481
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:01,230
mentioned Robert Lauren cuts down he

482
00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:03,630
talks about the UFO mythological zone he

483
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:06,630
talks about that as the gap between fact

484
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:08,940
and belief between what we see and what

485
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:11,130
we want to see what we experience and

486
00:20:15,470 --> 00:20:13,289
how we interpret it he says people are

487
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:15,480
forming highly personalized variations

488
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:17,190
of the one core belief the belief in a

489
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:19,799
UFO reality and then all else is simply

490
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:22,320
up for individual interpretation by this

491
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:24,600
UFO mythological zone he says in the

492
00:20:26,990 --> 00:20:25,200
absence of

493
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:27,000
many people simply choose what they want

494
00:20:31,159 --> 00:20:29,370
to believe and that really sums up the

495
00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:31,169
UFO scene I would say and that's how

496
00:20:35,509 --> 00:20:33,539
it's been for decades if I could just

497
00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:35,519
add and finish up on Lauren there

498
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:37,260
because he does offering a ways of

499
00:20:43,159 --> 00:20:40,110
rethinking this and he calls it UFO

500
00:20:44,509 --> 00:20:43,169
social engineering 101 and he identifies

501
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,519
you know that what are the major

502
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:47,039
components of ufology there's the idea

503
00:20:50,659 --> 00:20:48,510
of deception and he points to whatever

504
00:20:52,610 --> 00:20:50,669
the UFO is so that the subject seems to

505
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:52,620
cover itself up it's very slippery it's

506
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:54,510
hard to get our our hands on it and

507
00:20:58,100 --> 00:20:56,010
there's a mythology that's created by

508
00:20:59,840 --> 00:20:58,110
design inside of such a space and then

509
00:21:02,659 --> 00:20:59,850
he says there's the delusion which is us

510
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:02,669
and the whole UFO mythological zone and

511
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,559
the notion of without having any

512
00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:06,240
scientific proof or evidence we make

513
00:21:09,409 --> 00:21:08,070
things up ourselves and build your own

514
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:09,419
with mythology around it and then

515
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:10,260
there's the government and

516
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:12,510
disinformation and it's control of the

517
00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:14,450
narrative and ultimately I think he

518
00:21:19,009 --> 00:21:16,740
addresses that whoever controls the

519
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:19,019
narrative is going to determine what

520
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:21,000
we're going to know about it and a lot

521
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:22,799
of the narrative has been about healing

522
00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:24,809
the ETH and making a definitive answer

523
00:21:27,649 --> 00:21:26,190
to to what it is

524
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:27,659
hence the disclosure movement which is

525
00:21:32,539 --> 00:21:29,730
some kind of disastrous component of

526
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:32,549
ufology what he arrives at at the end is

527
00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:34,980
well let's stop trying to fit it into

528
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:37,769
that box and the number of the writers

529
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:39,210
say that over and over and over again

530
00:21:42,980 --> 00:21:41,250
inside this book stop trying to fit it

531
00:21:44,990 --> 00:21:42,990
into any kind of preconceived box

532
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:45,000
whether it's ETH or aliens from outer

533
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:47,880
space let's just try to pursue some

534
00:21:51,649 --> 00:21:49,620
better understanding around it and a

535
00:21:53,269 --> 00:21:51,659
number of them speak to that in a great

536
00:21:54,769 --> 00:21:53,279
way and point out a lot of different

537
00:21:56,629 --> 00:21:54,779
alternatives for how we could go about

538
00:21:58,820 --> 00:21:56,639
investigating the phenomenon it's a

539
00:22:00,680 --> 00:21:58,830
critical book but it's constructive you

540
00:22:02,269 --> 00:22:00,690
know each essay tries to offer remedies

541
00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:02,279
and solutions for the problems that they

542
00:22:06,169 --> 00:22:03,750
highlight that's the crucial thing here

543
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:06,179
it's not just a pile on beating of

544
00:22:09,889 --> 00:22:07,710
ufology there it there is that element

545
00:22:11,299 --> 00:22:09,899
of it because we need that in a sense

546
00:22:14,029 --> 00:22:11,309
you need a good hard slap in the face

547
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:14,039
sometimes to get to snap you out of the

548
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:16,230
days that you're in to recognize that

549
00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:17,610
there are problems and then once you

550
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:18,750
recognize that there are problems then

551
00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:20,250
you can you can start to offer solutions

552
00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:21,720
which is what we do throughout the book

553
00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:23,820
one thing that strikes me here and I've

554
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,340
made this argument a lot of times on my

555
00:22:32,990 --> 00:22:28,860
own articles and that is that the

556
00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:33,000
framework of the current UFO field was

557
00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:35,700
fashioned in the 1950s with major Keyhoe

558
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:38,260
especially because he talked about UFO

559
00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:40,450
being spaceships about a silence group

560
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,460
about the need for disclosure maybe he

561
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:44,320
didn't use that term

562
00:23:00,210 --> 00:22:47,650
we've got Jean and Chris and Robert and

563
00:23:02,909 --> 00:23:00,220
Robbie you're in the para cast you are

564
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listening to GCN

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visit GC and live.com today hi this is

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one hello I'm Mike Mendell the inventor

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of my pillow and like all of you out

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there

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I had problems sleeping yellows would go

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flat I would flip-flop all night long I

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would wake up with a sore neck maybe a

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headache or feel like I needed a nap

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invented my pillow I wanted it to where

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you the exact support you need as an

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spend in bed it's about how much of that

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minimum payments you should know the

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card companies would rather you didn't

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know that there are ways you can become

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debt free and you don't have to pay the

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entire amount you owe

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people like you escape overwhelming

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hundred million dollars of debt national

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declare bankruptcy or take out a

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at eight hundred three one four seventy

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four 17800 three one four seventy four

670
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seventeen that's eight hundred three one

671
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this is ugly

672
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you're listening to the podcast the gold

673
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oh that's great

674
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what is great also is the fact that

675
00:27:42,930 --> 00:27:40,360
we've got a second radio show called

676
00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:42,940
after the power cast and sometimes it's

677
00:27:48,270 --> 00:27:44,860
an extension of this show so last week

678
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:48,280
for example we had Greg Bishop and then

679
00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:50,320
he returned for after the power cast for

680
00:27:55,530 --> 00:27:52,840
further comments and we have sometimes

681
00:27:58,830 --> 00:27:55,540
just sitting here and watching the

682
00:27:59,670 --> 00:27:58,840
wheels go by and sometimes it's color

683
00:28:02,100 --> 00:27:59,680
commentary

684
00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:02,110
we never know it's unpredictable and the

685
00:28:06,990 --> 00:28:04,780
best way to listen to it and the only

686
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:07,000
way is to subscribe to the power cast

687
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plus at plus dr. power cast calm that's

688
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PL us dr. power cast calm you also get a

689
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commercial free version of this show how

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about that and other benefits for

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five-year and lifetime subscriptions

692
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we've got free ebooks physical print

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books to give away and other goodies go

694
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to plus not the podcast come once again

695
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:31,870
that's plus dot the para cast dot-com

696
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:34,810
now as our listeners know I go back a

697
00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:38,410
long long way I remember how the

698
00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:40,840
framework as I said of the UFO field was

699
00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:43,750
fashioned by people like major Keough in

700
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:46,420
the 50s and we all got stuck in a rut

701
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,050
and unfortunately those of us who have

702
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:52,000
tried to break out of it have not

703
00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:55,600
succeeded so guys and any one of you

704
00:29:00,480 --> 00:28:57,550
want to make the comment here do we take

705
00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:00,490
what was there was existed for over 60

706
00:29:08,790 --> 00:29:01,230
years

707
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:08,800
all away pretend it doesn't exist no I

708
00:29:11,820 --> 00:29:10,390
don't think any of us is rejecting

709
00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:11,830
wholesale everything that's gone before

710
00:29:16,530 --> 00:29:14,470
not by not by any means and also it's

711
00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:16,540
worth pointing out that this is a very

712
00:29:22,170 --> 00:29:20,230
eclectic volume the contributors differ

713
00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:22,180
quite significantly in their

714
00:29:27,210 --> 00:29:25,150
perspectives on all of this and I've

715
00:29:29,310 --> 00:29:27,220
structured it in such a way that some of

716
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:29,320
the essays in the first half of the book

717
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,620
clash very directly and harshly in the

718
00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:34,480
interview points but I no I don't think

719
00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:36,670
it's about rejecting what's gonna what's

720
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:38,260
gone before I think it's about looking

721
00:29:43,650 --> 00:29:40,960
into the past seeing what what is useful

722
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:43,660
but also look at looking looking at how

723
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:46,330
we can how we can move forward

724
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:48,250
also that the point is is that is that

725
00:29:53,549 --> 00:29:49,600
as we've talked about before ufology is

726
00:29:55,889 --> 00:29:53,559
is a as a belief system and that's it's

727
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:55,899
always going to be that regardless of

728
00:29:59,460 --> 00:29:57,730
how much science we inject into it it

729
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,470
will always be attractive to believe a

730
00:30:04,019 --> 00:30:01,600
mindset because of the implications of

731
00:30:06,029 --> 00:30:04,029
the subject but you know ufology is as I

732
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:06,039
said it's a new age religion and if if

733
00:30:09,450 --> 00:30:07,630
it's a new age religion then disclosure

734
00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:09,460
you mentioned that term before gene

735
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:11,950
which is something that that Kehoe

736
00:30:16,409 --> 00:30:14,289
talked about if not directly then he was

737
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:16,419
certainly very obsessed with the notion

738
00:30:22,259 --> 00:30:18,970
of a cover-up and and and bringing the

739
00:30:24,779 --> 00:30:22,269
secrets out into the open disclosure has

740
00:30:26,430 --> 00:30:24,789
become the holy grail of ufology and you

741
00:30:28,529 --> 00:30:26,440
followed gee I guess to a large extent

742
00:30:30,299 --> 00:30:28,539
has become what's known as XO politics

743
00:30:32,129 --> 00:30:30,309
which is this movement that's born of

744
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:32,139
the Internet and based on the assumption

745
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:34,450
that the term you know extraterrestrials

746
00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:37,360
are visiting us that they are here now

747
00:30:43,710 --> 00:30:39,340
that they are in constant communication

748
00:30:44,610 --> 00:30:43,720
and treaties with with the US government

749
00:30:46,529 --> 00:30:44,620
and other governments of the world

750
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:46,539
there's back-engineering of technologies

751
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:51,130
that etc etc etc and that that's very

752
00:30:56,940 --> 00:30:53,350
sexy and that has a lot of appeal to

753
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:56,950
people who who don't frankly have an

754
00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:00,880
awful lot of who don't enjoy critical

755
00:31:04,769 --> 00:31:01,600
thinking too much

756
00:31:06,750 --> 00:31:04,779
I mean that's not to say there's not

757
00:31:08,370 --> 00:31:06,760
there may be some truth there may be

758
00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:08,380
some truth to that scenario I don't I

759
00:31:12,899 --> 00:31:11,470
don't reject it wholesale but but but I

760
00:31:15,810 --> 00:31:12,909
think what we're suggesting is that the

761
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:15,820
phenomenon if you know and some of the

762
00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:17,200
people in the book which would argue

763
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:18,700
that there's no proof that there is that

764
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:21,010
there even is a phenomena I would say

765
00:31:24,029 --> 00:31:22,750
that most of the contributors would

766
00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:24,039
agree that there is something anomalous

767
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:27,700
underlying the offer phenomenon but but

768
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:29,289
we don't have any proof that it's

769
00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:30,990
extraterrestrial as appealing as that

770
00:31:36,539 --> 00:31:33,940
hypothesis may be and it does have some

771
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:36,549
surface logic to it but it's far from

772
00:31:40,110 --> 00:31:38,350
proving it it just says it's a

773
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:40,120
hypothesis though other avenues to

774
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:42,399
explore and a lot of the ideas that are

775
00:31:46,590 --> 00:31:43,929
explored in this book are not

776
00:31:50,909 --> 00:31:46,600
necessarily new but they are sidelined

777
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:50,919
forgotten unpopular hard to get your

778
00:31:54,750 --> 00:31:52,090
head around because some of them are

779
00:31:56,570 --> 00:31:54,760
quite abstract so some of these ideas

780
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,580
have been offered before by some

781
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:00,000
renowned thinkers but they've been

782
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:02,010
to decide pushed out of popular debate

783
00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:04,260
in favor of a more sexy simplistic

784
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:06,270
narrative and so what we're trying to do

785
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:07,770
is reintroduce some of these more

786
00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:10,860
complex and potentially more useful

787
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:13,800
ideas and theories into more mainstream

788
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:16,230
Aoife logical debate and to get people

789
00:32:19,490 --> 00:32:17,580
thinking and you know I've not

790
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:19,500
considered that before maybe maybe we

791
00:32:22,610 --> 00:32:21,270
don't have all the answers here maybe we

792
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:22,620
should start thinking outside the box a

793
00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:25,710
little bit more what kind of audience

794
00:32:30,530 --> 00:32:28,350
Robbie and Robert do you expect to reach

795
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:30,540
with this book the people who are just

796
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:33,600
sick to death of where it is now trying

797
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:36,240
to start from scratch what I think it

798
00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:38,730
will if I may answer that first is is

799
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:40,380
because I'm sure Rob will have his own

800
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:42,690
thoughts on that but my idea on that is

801
00:32:48,170 --> 00:32:45,000
that this book will have very natural

802
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:48,180
and immediate appeal to people who are

803
00:32:53,540 --> 00:32:50,960
as you say sick to the back teeth of of

804
00:32:57,050 --> 00:32:53,550
current popular ideas and of what of

805
00:33:00,020 --> 00:32:57,060
what ufology represents today people who

806
00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:00,030
are who are who would appreciate a good

807
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:01,590
hard slap in the face for the field and

808
00:33:04,790 --> 00:33:03,240
that's what we offer and I think people

809
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:04,800
will route those kind of people will

810
00:33:08,690 --> 00:33:06,120
relish this book at the same time I

811
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,700
think that regardless of where you fall

812
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:10,080
along the spectrum of belief whether

813
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:12,210
you're a skeptic or a believer for lack

814
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:14,340
of manya one's terms something in this

815
00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:16,260
book will annoy you you will be annoyed

816
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:18,840
guaranteed by at least one of the

817
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:20,970
chapters or by statements or paragraphs

818
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:23,310
within several chapters and that's the

819
00:33:27,140 --> 00:33:25,530
point it's not meant to please you it's

820
00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:27,150
meant to challenge you it's meant to

821
00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:29,670
make you challenge it to make them it's

822
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,080
it's intended to make you question your

823
00:33:35,540 --> 00:33:32,880
own beliefs and what you're what you're

824
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:35,550
bringing to this yourself we want to

825
00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:37,890
deconstruct ideas we want you to

826
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,190
deconstruct us as writers because we are

827
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:43,200
I guess representative of a certain

828
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:45,480
approach and so you can assess our

829
00:33:48,620 --> 00:33:46,980
approach based on what we what we

830
00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:48,630
present and you can assert you you can

831
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:51,630
you can you can reject if if you know if

832
00:33:54,830 --> 00:33:53,370
you want to but if even if you even if

833
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:54,840
you reject the book completely at least

834
00:33:59,690 --> 00:33:56,730
it's it's had value in that sense you

835
00:34:01,310 --> 00:33:59,700
know and so we are we are expecting or

836
00:34:02,930 --> 00:34:01,320
at least I'm expecting a lot of one-star

837
00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:02,940
reviews on Amazon for example I'm

838
00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:04,590
expecting a lot of five-star reviews and

839
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:05,700
Amazon I think it's going to be a little

840
00:34:09,740 --> 00:34:08,460
bit or hate it book but even the people

841
00:34:11,389 --> 00:34:09,750
who love it will find something to hate

842
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:11,399
within it within it and even the people

843
00:34:16,730 --> 00:34:13,530
who hate it will find something to love

844
00:34:18,110 --> 00:34:16,740
so it's that kind of book I so I think

845
00:34:21,290 --> 00:34:18,120
it'll have natural appeal for people who

846
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:21,300
are critical thinkers but my hope is

847
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,580
that it that it transcends that and it

848
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:26,040
actually reaches a more popular youthful

849
00:34:32,780 --> 00:34:29,250
aaja chol audience i want people to read

850
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:32,790
it who have fixed ideas and who are very

851
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:36,210
sympathetic to the eth and to the to the

852
00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:37,770
conspiratorial you falah jekyll

853
00:34:42,050 --> 00:34:40,080
narrative i want people to you know I

854
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:42,060
want XO politicians to read it I want

855
00:34:45,350 --> 00:34:44,190
people to you know because otherwise

856
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:45,360
there's no point if we're just preaching

857
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:47,129
to the converted then there's no point I

858
00:34:51,820 --> 00:34:50,010
want it to reach people so how do we

859
00:34:56,090 --> 00:34:51,830
attract the people who have been

860
00:34:57,770 --> 00:34:56,100
brainwashed well I think if you've been

861
00:34:59,210 --> 00:34:57,780
completely brainwashed it's it's

862
00:35:01,100 --> 00:34:59,220
difficult I don't think anyone is

863
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:01,110
completely beyond reach and I said in a

864
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:02,490
previous interview that you know I'm

865
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,370
coming to this from ah you know I used

866
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:10,800
you know I think we're all believers to

867
00:35:16,220 --> 00:35:12,510
an extent in the sense that in the lack

868
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:16,230
of definitive evidence for for you know

869
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:19,680
to kind of pin down a UFO reality that's

870
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:21,570
universally acceptable in the lack of

871
00:35:27,350 --> 00:35:24,300
that proof all we have really is belief

872
00:35:29,690 --> 00:35:27,360
and and whether it be a you know

873
00:35:33,070 --> 00:35:29,700
skeptical or more or more accepting we

874
00:35:36,850 --> 00:35:33,080
have we're all believers to an extent I

875
00:35:39,890 --> 00:35:36,860
just a few years ago was was far more

876
00:35:44,540 --> 00:35:39,900
aligned to the traditional you know

877
00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:44,550
exopolitical kind of very simplistic

878
00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:49,800
version of a UFO reality and it's only

879
00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:51,060
through it's only over the last several

880
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:53,880
years that I've had my mind expanded and

881
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:56,430
that I've challenged and challenged my

882
00:36:01,040 --> 00:35:58,890
own beliefs and shattered them really

883
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:01,050
and allowed other people to break them

884
00:36:06,590 --> 00:36:04,920
down so that I can start to pick up the

885
00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:06,600
pieces and see what remains you know and

886
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,070
sit and see what see what it looks like

887
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:10,800
now so that this this book is a

888
00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:12,810
challenge to myself really it's it's

889
00:36:17,570 --> 00:36:15,000
it's a challenge from an indulgent

890
00:36:19,610 --> 00:36:17,580
perspective of seeing what I what I

891
00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:19,620
still believe do I still believe what I

892
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:23,070
used to believe what essays in the book

893
00:36:27,089 --> 00:36:25,650
offend me do I do I find any of any of

894
00:36:29,460 --> 00:36:27,099
the writing in the book and

895
00:36:31,769 --> 00:36:29,470
being offensive to my sensibilities or

896
00:36:33,329 --> 00:36:31,779
beliefs and to an extent yes I do and

897
00:36:34,829 --> 00:36:33,339
that's why they're in there because if

898
00:36:35,969 --> 00:36:34,839
you're not reading things that challenge

899
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:35,979
you then if you just want to read

900
00:36:40,769 --> 00:36:38,400
something that confirms your existing

901
00:36:41,479 --> 00:36:40,779
assumptions and beliefs and then what's

902
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:41,489
the point

903
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:45,609
Robert Branstetter and Robbie Graham and

904
00:37:01,410 --> 00:36:49,660
gene and Chris UFOs reframing the debate

905
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:01,420
you're in the para cast thank you for

906
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listening to GCN

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be sure to visit GCN live.com today

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secret I heard she was eating this new

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1005
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okay this is Marie J Jones the author of

1006
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this book is from the future and you are

1007
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listening to the para cast the gold

1008
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standard of paranormal radio let us

1009
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:37,239
continue with Jean and Chris and Robbie

1010
00:41:41,939 --> 00:41:39,130
Graham and Robert Branstetter one of the

1011
00:41:44,249 --> 00:41:41,949
essayists who participate in UFO is

1012
00:41:47,429 --> 00:41:44,259
reframing the debate if you didn't

1013
00:41:49,139 --> 00:41:47,439
listen to Greg bishops appearance in the

1014
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:49,149
parent cast last week I suggested

1015
00:41:53,370 --> 00:41:51,729
because he also contributed to this book

1016
00:41:56,219 --> 00:41:53,380
plus they've got some great

1017
00:41:58,620 --> 00:41:56,229
illustrations from red pill junky mm-hmm

1018
00:42:00,209 --> 00:41:58,630
fantastic yeah and he gives everything a

1019
00:42:03,089 --> 00:42:00,219
touch of class and he doesn't have this

1020
00:42:05,579 --> 00:42:03,099
consistent style that's the same for

1021
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:05,589
everyone now he's really versatile yeah

1022
00:42:09,209 --> 00:42:07,599
incredibly versatile I mean he designed

1023
00:42:11,129 --> 00:42:09,219
the front cover for the book as well in

1024
00:42:13,379 --> 00:42:11,139
the back cover and all of the

1025
00:42:16,109 --> 00:42:13,389
illustrations you never know what you're

1026
00:42:18,449 --> 00:42:16,119
going to get with him I really asked a

1027
00:42:20,819 --> 00:42:18,459
lot of him in you know in what he's

1028
00:42:22,979 --> 00:42:20,829
provided for the book and I think he

1029
00:42:24,779 --> 00:42:22,989
could have done more but but I mean like

1030
00:42:26,729 --> 00:42:24,789
I could have asked more of him but I

1031
00:42:28,919 --> 00:42:26,739
didn't want to I didn't want to do that

1032
00:42:30,389 --> 00:42:28,929
to him what he's done in the book these

1033
00:42:32,099 --> 00:42:30,399
original illustrations are absolutely

1034
00:42:32,459 --> 00:42:32,109
fantastic and they do make it quite

1035
00:42:36,149 --> 00:42:32,469
unique

1036
00:42:37,919 --> 00:42:36,159
you mentioned Greg bishops essay there

1037
00:42:40,859 --> 00:42:37,929
and that's this one that's a huge

1038
00:42:42,449 --> 00:42:40,869
favorite of Roberts I know I didn't rub

1039
00:42:44,549 --> 00:42:42,459
it wanted to touch on that a little bit

1040
00:42:45,959 --> 00:42:44,559
sure but I'd like to just make a side

1041
00:42:47,429 --> 00:42:45,969
point about rpj because I've had a

1042
00:42:50,669 --> 00:42:47,439
chance to get to know him over this past

1043
00:42:52,919 --> 00:42:50,679
year and his essay is absolutely a joy

1044
00:42:54,449 --> 00:42:52,929
to read it stands in the middle of all

1045
00:42:56,879 --> 00:42:54,459
the other ones is in such a unique

1046
00:42:58,709 --> 00:42:56,889
writing style and anybody knows his wit

1047
00:43:00,779 --> 00:42:58,719
and listen to him online just imagine it

1048
00:43:03,329 --> 00:43:00,789
concentrated inside of essay form it is

1049
00:43:05,370 --> 00:43:03,339
classic hilarious entertaining fun

1050
00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:05,380
filled with his art it's a such a

1051
00:43:09,209 --> 00:43:07,209
dynamic piece and it comes out of you

1052
00:43:11,429 --> 00:43:09,219
know a very unexpected zone and he's got

1053
00:43:14,219 --> 00:43:11,439
something extremely unique to say about

1054
00:43:16,709 --> 00:43:14,229
with UFO means to him as an act of

1055
00:43:18,839 --> 00:43:16,719
personal alchemy but as well as how the

1056
00:43:20,399 --> 00:43:18,849
UFO is you know agent of chaos and

1057
00:43:23,339 --> 00:43:20,409
society which is I think a theme that a

1058
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:23,349
lot of the writers talk about the you

1059
00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:25,209
know the UFOs productive a creative

1060
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:26,260
force

1061
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:28,480
in our culture and it's a wonderful

1062
00:43:32,670 --> 00:43:29,830
essay for people who pick up the book

1063
00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:32,680
that's a great one to start with it is

1064
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:36,190
yeah he's focuses his is anarchy and the

1065
00:43:41,490 --> 00:43:39,490
UFO is the ultimate annika symbol I

1066
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:41,500
guess in modern modern society how it

1067
00:43:45,630 --> 00:43:43,690
challenges all the structures the whole

1068
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:45,640
society together it is a fascinating

1069
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:48,240
piece and as you say brilliantly written

1070
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:52,000
yeah but Greg's essay for me is like

1071
00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:53,680
worth the price of admission I've read

1072
00:43:57,870 --> 00:43:55,600
that piece a number of times I think

1073
00:44:00,030 --> 00:43:57,880
it's pretty definitive work having read

1074
00:44:02,370 --> 00:44:00,040
a lot of diverse materials from I think

1075
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:02,380
some fairly strong writers in the field

1076
00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:05,410
over the last years I'm drawn always to

1077
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:07,960
Greg's mode of thinking because he's not

1078
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:10,090
an absolutist he's always constantly

1079
00:44:14,130 --> 00:44:12,160
asking questions and probing and looking

1080
00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:14,140
for new ways to look at the field and I

1081
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:15,550
think he's perhaps one of the more

1082
00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:17,410
innovative thinkers we've got writing

1083
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:21,400
right now in his paper is just a strong

1084
00:44:25,260 --> 00:44:23,770
wonderful text it's academic it's

1085
00:44:27,570 --> 00:44:25,270
thoughtful its summative of the field

1086
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:27,580
he's critical of it he points in various

1087
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:30,010
new directions and gives you know for

1088
00:44:33,810 --> 00:44:32,230
both a new reader to the field a really

1089
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,820
good historical lens on how to think

1090
00:44:37,830 --> 00:44:35,440
about ufology and for people who've

1091
00:44:40,109 --> 00:44:37,840
studied it for a long time he provides a

1092
00:44:42,570 --> 00:44:40,119
whole cavalcade of new ways of thinking

1093
00:44:44,490 --> 00:44:42,580
about the the the field and he asks a

1094
00:44:46,620 --> 00:44:44,500
bunch of different questions for us and

1095
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:46,630
and points us in some new directions and

1096
00:44:48,930 --> 00:44:48,310
I think his pieces are really exciting

1097
00:44:50,849 --> 00:44:48,940
one

1098
00:44:53,490 --> 00:44:50,859
I should mention quickly about red pill

1099
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:53,500
junky he wrote an editorial for our

1100
00:44:58,830 --> 00:44:55,510
power cash newsletter where he was

1101
00:45:01,560 --> 00:44:58,840
comparing near-death experiences to UFO

1102
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:01,570
abductions and of course I said you know

1103
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:03,609
how about giving us a short editorial

1104
00:45:09,570 --> 00:45:06,130
like a thousand words I think it's five

1105
00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:09,580
or six thousand words and then some and

1106
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,460
I'd recommend it heartily especially

1107
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:14,800
whether you've read this book or not

1108
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:17,290
reframing the debate UFOs reframing the

1109
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:20,530
debate or maybe in preparation read that

1110
00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:23,590
get a sense of how red pill junky thinks

1111
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:26,020
is out-of-the-box thinking and then go

1112
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:27,609
ahead and read this book Andrea's essay

1113
00:45:31,609 --> 00:45:29,920
there but that glaze is a whole bunch of

1114
00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:31,619
fascinating discussions because

1115
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:34,600
everybody's living in this simple world

1116
00:45:39,810 --> 00:45:37,420
where near-death experiences well of

1117
00:45:40,549 --> 00:45:39,820
course maybe you were clinically dead

1118
00:45:43,009 --> 00:45:40,559
for

1119
00:45:45,469 --> 00:45:43,019
three four minutes and you see something

1120
00:45:48,529 --> 00:45:45,479
that may or may not be real but UFO

1121
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:48,539
abductions no it CT coming down and

1122
00:45:53,059 --> 00:45:51,170
they're doing their crazy quilt

1123
00:45:56,469 --> 00:45:53,069
examinations on us with primitive

1124
00:45:59,420 --> 00:45:56,479
instruments and scaring us to death and

1125
00:46:00,890 --> 00:45:59,430
they're raping women and causing hybrid

1126
00:46:03,890 --> 00:46:00,900
aliens and doing all sorts of crazy

1127
00:46:07,189 --> 00:46:03,900
stuff you know everyone's in a little

1128
00:46:09,229 --> 00:46:07,199
box yeah he touches on that in his essay

1129
00:46:11,569 --> 00:46:09,239
in the book as well you know he looks at

1130
00:46:13,749 --> 00:46:11,579
the idea that we're blinded by

1131
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:13,759
preconceptions of my scientific

1132
00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:17,249
preconceptions which be enforced by pop

1133
00:46:21,229 --> 00:46:19,529
culture I guess a complemented by pop

1134
00:46:23,569 --> 00:46:21,239
cultural representations of alien

1135
00:46:25,959 --> 00:46:23,579
contact you know that the phenomenon

1136
00:46:29,420 --> 00:46:25,969
itself doesn't seem to conform

1137
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,430
frustratingly to to what we wanted to to

1138
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:31,680
be in terms of first contact scenarios

1139
00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:34,170
you know the idea of a sorcerer on the

1140
00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:36,689
White House lawn or a or a decipherable

1141
00:46:41,959 --> 00:46:40,049
message received by SETI etc it seems to

1142
00:46:44,959 --> 00:46:41,969
do things that are completely anarchic

1143
00:46:48,349 --> 00:46:44,969
and that are trickster ish and playful

1144
00:46:49,939 --> 00:46:48,359
and frustrating and it just doesn't

1145
00:46:52,219 --> 00:46:49,949
conform to our expectations and

1146
00:46:55,069 --> 00:46:52,229
therefore it's hard to put under a glass

1147
00:46:57,169 --> 00:46:55,079
and study and so so yeah he touches on

1148
00:46:59,329 --> 00:46:57,179
similar themes in this and he's got a

1149
00:47:02,029 --> 00:46:59,339
great quote from Keith Thompson author

1150
00:47:04,249 --> 00:47:02,039
of angels and aliens UFOs and the mythic

1151
00:47:06,949 --> 00:47:04,259
imagination and he talks about how you

1152
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:06,959
know for the UFO witness or experiencer

1153
00:47:13,099 --> 00:47:10,890
both the skeptic and the proponent you

1154
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:13,109
know the person who champions this this

1155
00:47:18,319 --> 00:47:16,170
phenomenon is is a an ETH notion but

1156
00:47:21,049 --> 00:47:18,329
neither seem to fit for the witness and

1157
00:47:22,609 --> 00:47:21,059
what Greg highlights is is that as I

1158
00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:22,619
think many writers inside the text

1159
00:47:26,359 --> 00:47:25,049
highlight that there's the nature of the

1160
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,369
witness story which is something very

1161
00:47:30,289 --> 00:47:28,079
unique and that's what my calling calls

1162
00:47:31,759 --> 00:47:30,299
himself he says he's a folklorist and

1163
00:47:32,839 --> 00:47:31,769
he's simply collecting stories and

1164
00:47:34,609 --> 00:47:32,849
letting these narratives speak for

1165
00:47:37,370 --> 00:47:34,619
themselves which i think is a very

1166
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:37,380
honorable way of looking at it versus

1167
00:47:40,489 --> 00:47:39,359
the mythological zone where you've got

1168
00:47:42,469 --> 00:47:40,499
different people interpreting these

1169
00:47:43,669 --> 00:47:42,479
experiences say somebody like a Jacobs

1170
00:47:45,799 --> 00:47:43,679
that's saying that the aliens are here

1171
00:47:48,079 --> 00:47:45,809
busy living with us on earth and making

1172
00:47:49,249 --> 00:47:48,089
these absolute judgments about what's

1173
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:49,259
taking place even though there's no

1174
00:47:54,260 --> 00:47:52,079
basis in reality to make such pieces and

1175
00:47:55,940 --> 00:47:54,270
and what Greg highlights is is that

1176
00:47:57,590 --> 00:47:55,950
let's spend more time thinking about the

1177
00:47:59,420 --> 00:47:57,600
witness and giving them some primacy and

1178
00:48:01,850 --> 00:47:59,430
I think that is the dominant theme

1179
00:48:03,260 --> 00:48:01,860
within this collection is let's spend

1180
00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:03,270
more time thinking more carefully about

1181
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:05,220
how we treat the witness how we talk

1182
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:06,480
with the witness how we serve the

1183
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:08,130
witness because at the end of the day

1184
00:48:12,830 --> 00:48:11,070
that's the base foundation of what

1185
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:12,840
anything you want to call ufology is

1186
00:48:16,430 --> 00:48:14,850
about or our witnesses who have these

1187
00:48:17,810 --> 00:48:16,440
incredible stories that they have to

1188
00:48:19,250 --> 00:48:17,820
tell and then there's the people who

1189
00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:19,260
interpret them and make up the laws and

1190
00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:20,760
the religion as they always have and

1191
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:22,230
says and this is what this means as

1192
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:23,970
opposed to maybe listening more

1193
00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:26,400
carefully to the witness story because

1194
00:48:29,180 --> 00:48:27,660
at the end of the day the UFOs come and

1195
00:48:31,220 --> 00:48:29,190
gone but what we do have left as a

1196
00:48:33,290 --> 00:48:31,230
witness has been profoundly impacted and

1197
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:33,300
that's the place that we should be

1198
00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:36,510
sinking more careful energy into island

1199
00:48:39,110 --> 00:48:38,040
so you would read that for example in

1200
00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:39,120
the book and think yeah that makes a lot

1201
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:40,620
of sense I and I kind of really agree

1202
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:42,450
with that and then in the in for example

1203
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:44,790
so as you say Cleland my cleland

1204
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,890
champions that idea and others do as

1205
00:48:50,810 --> 00:48:48,720
well but in the essay that directly

1206
00:48:53,630 --> 00:48:50,820
follows Mike Collins which is by Jack

1207
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:53,640
Brewer he projects outright that

1208
00:48:58,220 --> 00:48:55,650
approach and says that witness testimony

1209
00:49:00,380 --> 00:48:58,230
is virtually worthless or the testimony

1210
00:49:03,020 --> 00:49:00,390
of an individual witness is virtually

1211
00:49:05,660 --> 00:49:03,030
worse worthless and then he goes on to

1212
00:49:07,130 --> 00:49:05,670
sort of explain why he feels that's the

1213
00:49:09,230 --> 00:49:07,140
case and makes a very good case for that

1214
00:49:10,490 --> 00:49:09,240
again that's that this comes down to the

1215
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:10,500
structure of the book from my

1216
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:13,290
perspective as an editor I wanted the

1217
00:49:17,660 --> 00:49:16,410
Edit the essays to clash and conflict so

1218
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:17,670
that the reader is never really sure

1219
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:20,400
what to believe it just as you feel you

1220
00:49:24,590 --> 00:49:22,050
might be close to drawing a conclusion

1221
00:49:27,050 --> 00:49:24,600
or something might be close to making

1222
00:49:28,820 --> 00:49:27,060
sense you read the next essay and all of

1223
00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:28,830
a sudden those ideas that are thrown out

1224
00:49:32,060 --> 00:49:30,180
the window and yet you presented the new

1225
00:49:33,620 --> 00:49:32,070
ones and you feel sort of lost and I've

1226
00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:33,630
said this before that by the end of the

1227
00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:35,310
book I want the reader to feel to an

1228
00:49:38,930 --> 00:49:37,740
extent lost and I don't provide a

1229
00:49:41,150 --> 00:49:38,940
conclusion at the end of the book

1230
00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:41,160
because I want the reader to draw their

1231
00:49:44,420 --> 00:49:42,780
own conclusions to the extent that that

1232
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:44,430
is possible and it may not be possible

1233
00:49:47,870 --> 00:49:46,410
I want the reader to feel lost because

1234
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:47,880
when you're lost you're asking questions

1235
00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:49,110
and you start looking for any direction

1236
00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:51,420
well the big problem of course we

1237
00:49:58,460 --> 00:49:55,190
continue to have here is that the

1238
00:50:02,060 --> 00:49:58,470
mainstream world out there is our

1239
00:50:06,140 --> 00:50:02,070
totally different planet they are not in

1240
00:50:07,549 --> 00:50:06,150
this universe their universe is et their

1241
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:07,559
universe is disclosed

1242
00:50:13,130 --> 00:50:10,319
sure very universe is Roswell and

1243
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:13,140
Roswell is not possibly some kind of

1244
00:50:18,709 --> 00:50:17,160
test aircraft or a balloon or testing of

1245
00:50:21,469 --> 00:50:18,719
human subjects or anything like that

1246
00:50:26,089 --> 00:50:21,479
they're really smart and possibly

1247
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:26,099
relevant interpretations it is the 1950s

1248
00:50:34,969 --> 00:50:32,160
revisited this is a sculpture it is a

1249
00:50:37,459 --> 00:50:34,979
pop culture and it's very hard to undo

1250
00:50:38,929 --> 00:50:37,469
and it's become it has become just yeah

1251
00:50:42,829 --> 00:50:38,939
central to pop common you've had fringe

1252
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:42,839
culture become pop culture over several

1253
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:44,880
decades and really the popularization of

1254
00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:46,729
that fringe called join into pop culture

1255
00:50:53,329 --> 00:50:50,609
occurred very rapidly and beginning in

1256
00:50:54,979 --> 00:50:53,339
the late 80s through throughout the 90s

1257
00:50:57,259 --> 00:50:54,989
then I mean it was occurring before that

1258
00:50:59,089 --> 00:50:57,269
on a lower level but then when you start

1259
00:51:03,739 --> 00:50:59,099
to have things like the x-files which

1260
00:51:05,779 --> 00:51:03,749
were just acting is like a parasite and

1261
00:51:07,189 --> 00:51:05,789
all of this rich mythology that existed

1262
00:51:09,009 --> 00:51:07,199
and the fringes and in the subcultures

1263
00:51:12,259 --> 00:51:09,019
and then thrusting it into pop culture

1264
00:51:14,989 --> 00:51:12,269
through TV and film it was irreversible

1265
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:14,999
land and that just became part of the

1266
00:51:19,519 --> 00:51:17,369
popular imagination and you know from in

1267
00:51:21,169 --> 00:51:19,529
1988 no one had even heard of area 51

1268
00:51:24,099 --> 00:51:21,179
except for a handful of people in the

1269
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:24,109
UFO community by like 1993 it was

1270
00:51:27,620 --> 00:51:26,130
everywhere everyone had some

1271
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:27,630
understanding of what it represented and

1272
00:51:31,099 --> 00:51:30,089
by 1996 it was in the biggest movie one

1273
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:31,109
of the biggest movies of all time

1274
00:51:35,989 --> 00:51:33,660
Independence Day as a call core a plot

1275
00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:35,999
element let's get into more of this

1276
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:38,910
Robbie Graham Robert Branstetter Jean

1277
00:51:58,740 --> 00:51:53,730
thank you for listening to GCN

1278
00:52:01,350 --> 00:51:58,750
be sure to visit GCN live.com today ray

1279
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:01,360
perkins a reclusive veteran burned out

1280
00:52:06,109 --> 00:52:03,850
from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1281
00:52:08,490 --> 00:52:06,119
relentless perplexing nightmares

1282
00:52:10,410 --> 00:52:08,500
nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1283
00:52:12,690 --> 00:52:10,420
space and of a mysterious woman

1284
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:12,700
suffering an agony for her devastated

1285
00:52:19,820 --> 00:52:15,850
world a woman not yet born calling

1286
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:19,830
across centuries to him then a

1287
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:22,570
coincidence leads into his destiny his

1288
00:52:27,870 --> 00:52:25,810
chance to alter the universe attack of

1289
00:52:29,730 --> 00:52:27,880
the Rockland rock the former fiction

1290
00:52:32,220 --> 00:52:29,740
editor for Star Wars and Indiana Jones

1291
00:52:34,380 --> 00:52:32,230
Robert Simpson writes the soul of the

1292
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novel attack of the Rockets lies in its

1293
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1294
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1295
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galaxy a thrilling storm attack of the

1296
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1300
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that's our Ock o IDs calm attack of the

1301
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rotten Rock a novel in the grand

1302
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science-fiction tradition you've heard

1303
00:53:05,099 --> 00:53:02,770
the phrase you are what you eat not true

1304
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:05,109
actually you are what you can absorb so

1305
00:53:08,340 --> 00:53:06,640
if the vitamins and supplements you now

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[Applause]

1332
00:54:14,809 --> 00:54:10,480
welcome back into the para cast the gold

1333
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:14,819
standard of paranormal radio and now

1334
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:23,530
here's James Steinberg let's pick up on

1335
00:54:30,930 --> 00:54:26,319
this a little bit here about you know

1336
00:54:33,150 --> 00:54:30,940
all the impact of our pop culture and of

1337
00:54:36,059 --> 00:54:33,160
course Independence Day picking up all

1338
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:36,069
those cultural memes taking everybody to

1339
00:54:40,589 --> 00:54:38,530
area 51 where they have the bodies of

1340
00:54:42,210 --> 00:54:40,599
the aliens and they have the captured

1341
00:54:46,049 --> 00:54:42,220
spaceship at Roswell except they

1342
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:46,059
captured it in the 1950s you know I mean

1343
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:48,730
you know some of that script continuity

1344
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:51,609
could have been fixed so but the point

1345
00:54:56,579 --> 00:54:54,130
is they listened to that the x-files did

1346
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:56,589
- but the x-files had its new

1347
00:55:02,809 --> 00:54:58,450
incarnation last year and it's going to

1348
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:02,819
be a another season probably next year

1349
00:55:09,809 --> 00:55:07,690
they threw out some of that meme and

1350
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:09,819
they came up with something else so now

1351
00:55:14,370 --> 00:55:12,160
they learned yeah maybe the aliens

1352
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:14,380
landed at Roswell but all the nonsense

1353
00:55:19,730 --> 00:55:16,930
that's happened since then has been done

1354
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:19,740
by our own government in part using

1355
00:55:23,930 --> 00:55:22,210
reverse engineered technology from

1356
00:55:27,150 --> 00:55:23,940
Roswell have you noticed that change

1357
00:55:29,220 --> 00:55:27,160
well what's so fascinating about the new

1358
00:55:32,819 --> 00:55:29,230
series of the x-files the one that's

1359
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:32,829
just gone is that you had a break

1360
00:55:35,490 --> 00:55:34,000
someone might correct me if I'm wrong

1361
00:55:38,460 --> 00:55:35,500
here but I think got a gap between

1362
00:55:41,579 --> 00:55:38,470
season 9 which was the previous the last

1363
00:55:43,470 --> 00:55:41,589
season of the old series in 2009 had a

1364
00:55:45,690 --> 00:55:43,480
gap of about 14 years between that

1365
00:55:49,260 --> 00:55:45,700
season and this new season and in that

1366
00:55:52,859 --> 00:55:49,270
time you had an absolute explosive

1367
00:55:55,410 --> 00:55:52,869
blossoming of conspiracy culture largely

1368
00:55:58,170 --> 00:55:55,420
thanks to the internet and what you had

1369
00:55:59,900 --> 00:55:58,180
was a sort of a homogeneous Asian a

1370
00:56:02,490 --> 00:55:59,910
coalescence of lots of different

1371
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:02,500
conspiracy strands all weaved together

1372
00:56:06,690 --> 00:56:04,690
into an ultimate grand conspiracy and

1373
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:06,700
the creators of the x-files Kris

1374
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:09,030
Carter's and others have obviously been

1375
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:11,440
observing this with great fascination

1376
00:56:15,810 --> 00:56:14,319
and have relished the opportunity to to

1377
00:56:17,660 --> 00:56:15,820
weave all of that into

1378
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:17,670
the very first episode of the new series

1379
00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:21,280
did so very effectively in a sense of

1380
00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:22,300
unifying all of these conspiracy

1381
00:56:26,970 --> 00:56:24,340
theories which have been emerging over

1382
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:26,980
the past sort of decade or so but they

1383
00:56:31,530 --> 00:56:29,440
did so at the expense of a kind of a

1384
00:56:33,780 --> 00:56:31,540
dramatic narrative because they were so

1385
00:56:37,230 --> 00:56:33,790
zealous to to get everything in there

1386
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:37,240
that the mystery of the series is gone

1387
00:56:40,820 --> 00:56:38,890
but anyway that's that's by the by but

1388
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:40,830
the point is is that the that yeah they

1389
00:56:47,850 --> 00:56:44,590
do not underestimate the massive power

1390
00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:47,860
of televisual of visual media television

1391
00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:51,430
and cinema to shape our perceptions of

1392
00:56:55,710 --> 00:56:54,190
the world around us the British

1393
00:56:57,720 --> 00:56:55,720
filmmaker Ken Russell once said that

1394
00:56:59,310 --> 00:56:57,730
Hollywood fills the gaps in our

1395
00:57:01,050 --> 00:56:59,320
knowledge of the world and I think that

1396
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:01,060
is such a profoundly true statement and

1397
00:57:05,730 --> 00:57:02,530
it's it's especially true when it comes

1398
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:05,740
to our knowledge so-called of UFOs or we

1399
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:07,390
have our gaps in knowledge and so what

1400
00:57:10,620 --> 00:57:09,190
fills those gaps well it's pop culture

1401
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:10,630
essentially for the for people who

1402
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:12,730
aren't reading UFO literature what fills

1403
00:57:17,730 --> 00:57:15,730
those gaps is pop culture is movies and

1404
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:17,740
TV shows and those TV shows and movies

1405
00:57:23,970 --> 00:57:21,040
feed like a parasite on this rich sub

1406
00:57:26,430 --> 00:57:23,980
cultural narrative and New Age religion

1407
00:57:29,010 --> 00:57:26,440
and they they they read the same books

1408
00:57:31,730 --> 00:57:29,020
as UFO believers and they they use it

1409
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:31,740
for dramatic purposes and they weave

1410
00:57:35,970 --> 00:57:34,000
so-called you Falah djegal fact which

1411
00:57:37,980 --> 00:57:35,980
itself is usually speculative with

1412
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:37,990
completely imagined fiction and they

1413
00:57:43,740 --> 00:57:42,010
create this hyper real world where where

1414
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:43,750
UFOs and all of the things that are

1415
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:46,090
associated with them are simultaneously

1416
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:47,920
fact and fantasy in the popular

1417
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:49,810
imagination is no separating the two and

1418
00:57:53,970 --> 00:57:51,760
no one has any interest in separating

1419
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:53,980
the two if it were ever possible in the

1420
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:54,610
first place

1421
00:57:59,880 --> 00:57:56,170
so one of the examples they use is

1422
00:58:03,690 --> 00:57:59,890
Roswell in fact where Roswell is the the

1423
00:58:05,010 --> 00:58:03,700
movie Roswell the 1994 TV movie produced

1424
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:05,020
by paul davids and written by paul

1425
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:06,730
davids this is a this was the film that

1426
00:58:10,620 --> 00:58:08,770
really thrust the Roswell incident into

1427
00:58:12,750 --> 00:58:10,630
pop culture people were aware of it

1428
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:12,760
within the UFO community at that point

1429
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:14,650
in prior to that but it still wasn't a

1430
00:58:19,830 --> 00:58:17,290
huge huge thing up until that point but

1431
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:19,840
then that that film was based on a

1432
00:58:25,410 --> 00:58:22,480
couple of bucks a couple of UFO books a

1433
00:58:27,630 --> 00:58:25,420
nonfiction loose please that term

1434
00:58:29,230 --> 00:58:27,640
loosely you know it was seen by millions

1435
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:29,240
of people on showtime TV

1436
00:58:33,460 --> 00:58:31,250
was nominated for Golden Globe and then

1437
00:58:36,210 --> 00:58:33,470
that movie crystallized all of these are

1438
00:58:38,020 --> 00:58:36,220
the kind of abstract loose ideas

1439
00:58:39,850 --> 00:58:38,030
crystallized them and it crucially

1440
00:58:41,530 --> 00:58:39,860
narrative eyes them that's what TV and

1441
00:58:43,150 --> 00:58:41,540
cinema do is they narrative eyes ideas

1442
00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:43,160
in it and they make sense out of life

1443
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:45,160
out of history out of situations I

1444
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:47,330
should probably stop ranting anyway cuz

1445
00:58:52,030 --> 00:58:48,950
I'm going off on my cinema rants here

1446
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:52,040
but but the idea is is that to summarize

1447
00:58:58,030 --> 00:58:54,770
obviously film and TV have a huge huge

1448
00:58:59,859 --> 00:58:58,040
effect on our understanding of a

1449
00:59:01,359 --> 00:58:59,869
misunderstanding of the world around us

1450
00:59:02,590 --> 00:59:01,369
they simplify things because they

1451
00:59:04,930 --> 00:59:02,600
narrative eyes things and the world

1452
00:59:08,140 --> 00:59:04,940
doesn't conform life doesn't conform to

1453
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:08,150
narrative structures and so so cinema

1454
00:59:13,230 --> 00:59:10,310
simplifies life for us and it simplifies

1455
00:59:15,940 --> 00:59:13,240
things that we don't understand

1456
00:59:18,550 --> 00:59:15,950
especially UFOs we don't send them to

1457
00:59:20,830 --> 00:59:18,560
begin with and so our understanding has

1458
00:59:23,590 --> 00:59:20,840
come through simplified cinematic and

1459
00:59:26,050 --> 00:59:23,600
televisual narratives and so that has a

1460
00:59:28,530 --> 00:59:26,060
massive effect on what on popular belief

1461
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:28,540
and assumptions and it's all framed

1462
00:59:32,980 --> 00:59:31,010
through the extra-terrestrial hypothesis

1463
00:59:35,290 --> 00:59:32,990
because cinema likes to keep things

1464
00:59:36,700 --> 00:59:35,300
simple you know another example there is

1465
00:59:39,820 --> 00:59:36,710
a Steven Spielberg when he was making

1466
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:39,830
Close Encounters of the Third Kind in in

1467
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:44,390
1976 1977 he was consulting with Jacques

1468
00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:47,690
Vallee and Jacques Vallee insisted that

1469
00:59:52,030 --> 00:59:49,359
Spielberg should explore

1470
00:59:57,220 --> 00:59:52,040
interdimensional hypotheses or more

1471
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:57,230
complex you know multifaceted ideas than

1472
01:00:00,190 --> 00:59:58,880
just extraterrestrial visitation and

1473
01:00:01,390 --> 01:00:00,200
Spielberg said well you know that might

1474
01:00:03,490 --> 01:00:01,400
well be the case that might be very

1475
01:00:06,220 --> 01:00:03,500
interesting he said but I want to give

1476
01:00:09,250 --> 01:00:06,230
people what they expect and he knew this

1477
01:00:10,859 --> 01:00:09,260
the aliens in metal spacecraft coming

1478
01:00:12,970 --> 01:00:10,869
from in a from another

1479
01:00:14,980 --> 01:00:12,980
another galaxy or another star system

1480
01:00:17,109 --> 01:00:14,990
was easier to package and easier to

1481
01:00:18,430 --> 01:00:17,119
digest for the audiences and so

1482
01:00:21,790 --> 01:00:18,440
Hollywood likes to keep things simple

1483
01:00:25,530 --> 01:00:21,800
and so yeah so Hollywood keeps it simple

1484
01:00:29,290 --> 01:00:25,540
ufology keeps it simple is it simple I

1485
01:00:31,150 --> 01:00:29,300
would say probably not well you know

1486
01:00:33,550 --> 01:00:31,160
another thing too I think bears

1487
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:33,560
mentioning is that when you have a

1488
01:00:42,530 --> 01:00:36,410
popular movie like Close Encounters or a

1489
01:00:47,390 --> 01:00:44,540
well the outer limits comes to mind

1490
01:00:50,660 --> 01:00:47,400
Twilight Zone obviously in the 90s the

1491
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:50,670
x-files I I have noticed that there

1492
01:01:00,350 --> 01:00:55,200
seems to be a kind of a real obvious

1493
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:00,360
reaction in in public fascination with

1494
01:01:07,370 --> 01:01:03,930
these programs which 10 tends to I think

1495
01:01:09,710 --> 01:01:07,380
result in the increased numbers of

1496
01:01:13,970 --> 01:01:09,720
sightings I think when people are

1497
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:13,980
inspired by a certain scientific science

1498
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:16,470
fiction or scientific motif that has to

1499
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:19,200
do with with ETS and aliens they tend to

1500
01:01:24,110 --> 01:01:21,090
be more observant of the night sky or

1501
01:01:26,780 --> 01:01:24,120
their environment around them during the

1502
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:26,790
day and I think that that has a way of

1503
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:30,720
possibly whether it's spontaneous

1504
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:33,330
whether it's you know kind of a rolling

1505
01:01:41,380 --> 01:01:36,570
motion to the culture you do see more

1506
01:01:43,970 --> 01:01:41,390
sighting events being reported and being

1507
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:43,980
held up for for the rest of the culture

1508
01:01:48,590 --> 01:01:46,170
to observe and and I think that there's

1509
01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:48,600
there's a real obvious cause and effect

1510
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:52,110
relationship between coverage of of the

1511
01:01:58,550 --> 01:01:55,440
et extraterrestrial alien meme in the

1512
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:58,560
culture and actual response within the

1513
01:02:02,420 --> 01:01:59,760
culture were kind of a call

1514
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:02,430
calling response and that's something

1515
01:02:09,250 --> 01:02:05,730
that I I've been fascinated by and and I

1516
01:02:12,140 --> 01:02:09,260
really think goes towards a psychosocial

1517
01:02:15,890 --> 01:02:12,150
sort of analysis of the whole phenomena

1518
01:02:18,860 --> 01:02:15,900
and well I think more at least in my

1519
01:02:20,510 --> 01:02:18,870
mind more work needs to be done in these

1520
01:02:25,790 --> 01:02:20,520
areas I think they could be infinitely

1521
01:02:28,100 --> 01:02:25,800
rewarding I agree I I looked at this

1522
01:02:29,630 --> 01:02:28,110
when I was doing my research myself a

1523
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:29,640
screen sources book and I looked at this

1524
01:02:34,490 --> 01:02:31,770
a lot for a long long long time the

1525
01:02:36,110 --> 01:02:34,500
years in fact and people do talk

1526
01:02:38,420 --> 01:02:36,120
generally about this idea of a feedback

1527
01:02:40,310 --> 01:02:38,430
loop between what people see on screen

1528
01:02:41,740 --> 01:02:40,320
and what people report in real life and

1529
01:02:44,930 --> 01:02:41,750
there being a direct correlation between

1530
01:02:46,820 --> 01:02:44,940
real world sightings and big blockbuster

1531
01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:46,830
movies and things like that in reality

1532
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:49,980
it's very hard to make those

1533
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:53,730
correlations there are a handful of

1534
01:02:58,600 --> 01:02:56,000
examples where you can point to increase

1535
01:03:00,970 --> 01:02:58,610
sightings demonstrably following the

1536
01:03:03,220 --> 01:03:00,980
release of a major movie I think Close

1537
01:03:08,770 --> 01:03:03,230
Encounters was really it was definitely

1538
01:03:12,010 --> 01:03:08,780
one but but at the same time the effect

1539
01:03:13,930 --> 01:03:12,020
of cinema more broadly it is it's not

1540
01:03:17,770 --> 01:03:13,940
it's not cinema doesn't have direct

1541
01:03:19,570 --> 01:03:17,780
effects it has a macro effect well I was

1542
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:19,580
challenged that when they're a bit

1543
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:21,260
Robbie because I would say that the very

1544
01:03:25,330 --> 01:03:22,850
act of seeing is something that's

1545
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:25,340
informed by you know memory and what

1546
01:03:28,930 --> 01:03:27,410
we've seen before and I think one of the

1547
01:03:31,090 --> 01:03:28,940
things that both Greg and I try to make

1548
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:31,100
the case for is that the cultural impact

1549
01:03:36,460 --> 01:03:33,110
of these cinematic representations of

1550
01:03:38,290 --> 01:03:36,470
the UFO probably have an incredible

1551
01:03:41,470 --> 01:03:38,300
amount to do with what in fact is

1552
01:03:43,630 --> 01:03:41,480
reported by a witness because they tend

1553
01:03:45,550 --> 01:03:43,640
to dress it then with the skins of the

1554
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:45,560
things that they know about we've got

1555
01:03:57,529 --> 01:03:48,530
Robert Branstetter Ravi Graham gene and

1556
01:04:01,770 --> 01:04:00,029
attack of the rock AIDS has been

1557
01:04:03,690 --> 01:04:01,780
well-received by critics and readers

1558
01:04:06,539 --> 01:04:03,700
alike it's a thrill a minute story

1559
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:06,549
you'll never forget a former US military

1560
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:08,890
intelligence officer is haunted by

1561
01:04:13,799 --> 01:04:11,170
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

1562
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:13,809
pleading for his help after a terrible

1563
01:04:18,690 --> 01:04:16,569
battle in outer space but the dreams

1564
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:18,700
turn out to be true and thrust him into

1565
01:04:23,370 --> 01:04:20,650
a telepathic love affair with a woman

1566
01:04:25,710 --> 01:04:23,380
whose faraway planet is intent on

1567
01:04:28,529 --> 01:04:25,720
destroying the earth and now the

1568
01:04:30,990 --> 01:04:28,539
gripping tale continues in the coming of

1569
01:04:33,599 --> 01:04:31,000
the protectors it's the second book of

1570
01:04:35,789 --> 01:04:33,609
the rock ODEs trilogy a galaxy spanning

1571
01:04:38,819 --> 01:04:35,799
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

1572
01:04:40,650 --> 01:04:38,829
against powerful fanatical enemies that

1573
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:40,660
threaten the lives of freedom loving

1574
01:04:46,099 --> 01:04:43,359
beings everywhere attack of the rock

1575
01:04:48,829 --> 01:04:46,109
ODEs and the coming of the protectors

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01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:48,839
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1613
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1619
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1620
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1621
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1622
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Mendell the inventor of my pillow and

1623
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like all of you out there I had problem

1624
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sleeping yellows would go flat I would

1625
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flip flop all night long I would wake up

1626
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with a sore neck maybe a headache or

1627
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feel like I needed a nap even though I

1628
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slept eight hours when I invented my

1629
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1630
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1631
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1632
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1635
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bed it's about how much of that quality

1637
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1638
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1639
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1640
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1650
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1656
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1657
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1661
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1662
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1663
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you have a comment or question about the

1664
01:08:11,530 --> 01:08:08,330
para cast send it to news at the

1665
01:08:14,380 --> 01:08:11,540
Ericka's calm that's news at the para

1666
01:08:16,780 --> 01:08:14,390
caste calm and don't forget to visit our

1667
01:08:22,180 --> 01:08:16,790
famous para caste community forums at

1668
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:22,190
forum the para caste calm Robert

1669
01:08:26,829 --> 01:08:23,930
Branstetter was starting on something

1670
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:26,839
here where of course when we see

1671
01:08:33,250 --> 01:08:30,170
something our cultural conditioning puts

1672
01:08:34,930 --> 01:08:33,260
the dress around it what we see but I

1673
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:34,940
wanted to add something here that

1674
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:36,710
occurred to me is we're listening so

1675
01:08:41,290 --> 01:08:39,050
when you have a UFO movie or something

1676
01:08:43,390 --> 01:08:41,300
that sparks interest in UFOs people see

1677
01:08:44,950 --> 01:08:43,400
more of them is that because there are

1678
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:44,960
more things to see out there and we just

1679
01:08:50,590 --> 01:08:48,170
start looking or the phenomenon picks up

1680
01:08:52,420 --> 01:08:50,600
on it well I think the the simple

1681
01:08:54,310 --> 01:08:52,430
explanation that would be this simply

1682
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:54,320
and I can testify to this myself so I

1683
01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:55,730
didn't see Close Encounters of the Third

1684
01:08:59,040 --> 01:08:57,290
Kind until I was 16 years old

1685
01:09:00,579 --> 01:08:59,050
and that when I was already like

1686
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:00,589
consuming all of the literature

1687
01:09:05,740 --> 01:09:04,250
feverishly and so this was just like the

1688
01:09:08,020 --> 01:09:05,750
most amazing film I'd ever seen it still

1689
01:09:10,060 --> 01:09:08,030
at my favorite films it's a brilliant

1690
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:10,070
brilliant film but I watched it for the

1691
01:09:14,620 --> 01:09:12,410
first time and I was awestruck by it and

1692
01:09:15,730 --> 01:09:14,630
then I stepped out when it finished when

1693
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:15,740
the credits would roll they stepped out

1694
01:09:20,170 --> 01:09:17,839
into my back garden as a 16 year old

1695
01:09:21,970 --> 01:09:20,180
they looked across the horizon and guess

1696
01:09:24,130 --> 01:09:21,980
what I saw a UFO and I stood and looked

1697
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:24,140
at this UFO and I stood and I watched it

1698
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:26,570
for 30 40 minutes look through

1699
01:09:29,829 --> 01:09:27,890
binoculars and what is it what is it

1700
01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:29,839
what is it turned out to be a planet but

1701
01:09:33,730 --> 01:09:32,510
because I had seen that film I directly

1702
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:33,740
saw him saying things don't have a

1703
01:09:38,140 --> 01:09:35,330
direct effect they did they can have

1704
01:09:39,940 --> 01:09:38,150
direct effects but broadly speaking so

1705
01:09:42,190 --> 01:09:39,950
it's obviously that inspired me to go

1706
01:09:43,870 --> 01:09:42,200
out and look at the sky so the effect

1707
01:09:46,599 --> 01:09:43,880
there is that it doesn't necessarily

1708
01:09:48,099 --> 01:09:46,609
shape what you see but it encourages you

1709
01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:48,109
to actually go and look at the sky and

1710
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:49,760
therefore you but you're more likely to

1711
01:09:53,740 --> 01:09:52,250
see and that was my point before yeah

1712
01:09:55,570 --> 01:09:53,750
but I agree with what Robert was saying

1713
01:09:58,750 --> 01:09:55,580
in since they you know we can dress

1714
01:10:01,180 --> 01:09:58,760
things in the skin but when I talk about

1715
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:01,190
cinema not having a direct effect what I

1716
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:03,290
meant there was for example a film like

1717
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:05,570
Natural Born Killers which is hugely

1718
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:07,970
hugely controversial in 1994 Oliver

1719
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:09,530
Stone's film ultra violent film which is

1720
01:10:15,250 --> 01:10:12,320
commentary on on violence and media

1721
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:15,260
sensationalism that film the expectation

1722
01:10:18,970 --> 01:10:17,090
is that you see a Tarantino movie like

1723
01:10:21,340 --> 01:10:18,980
you know and so for example conservative

1724
01:10:22,190 --> 01:10:21,350
critics will argue that films will

1725
01:10:23,630 --> 01:10:22,200
encourage pee

1726
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:23,640
people to the violent films will

1727
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:25,290
encourage people to go out and commit

1728
01:10:29,210 --> 01:10:27,450
violence it's just this this absolutely

1729
01:10:31,850 --> 01:10:29,220
never been any evidence of it whatsoever

1730
01:10:33,620 --> 01:10:31,860
you know apart from a handful a handful

1731
01:10:35,930 --> 01:10:33,630
of very very small cases where you've

1732
01:10:38,030 --> 01:10:35,940
got people who are already psychotic or

1733
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:38,040
mentally imbalanced whoo-hoo yes have

1734
01:10:41,510 --> 01:10:39,570
been you know triggered by something

1735
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:41,520
they've seen but people who are

1736
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:44,130
otherwise mentally stable you're

1737
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:46,290
well-adjusted individuals are not going

1738
01:10:49,850 --> 01:10:48,090
to watch you know a Tarantino movie and

1739
01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:49,860
then go on a killing spree so it doesn't

1740
01:10:53,540 --> 01:10:51,990
have that kind of direct impact that a

1741
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:53,550
lot of conservative critics would argue

1742
01:10:59,510 --> 01:10:56,000
that it does but certainly over time

1743
01:11:01,250 --> 01:10:59,520
cinema can shape our perceptions of a

1744
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:01,260
great many things in a very broad sense

1745
01:11:05,090 --> 01:11:03,810
absolutely and I would also add because

1746
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:05,100
I don't think I'm too interested in the

1747
01:11:09,860 --> 01:11:07,170
notion of you know cinema or these pop

1748
01:11:12,620 --> 01:11:09,870
cultural representations creating cases

1749
01:11:14,420 --> 01:11:12,630
sightings but I do think that they have

1750
01:11:16,910 --> 01:11:14,430
a lot to do with the nature of how we

1751
01:11:18,650 --> 01:11:16,920
see and one of the rules of about seeing

1752
01:11:20,930 --> 01:11:18,660
that I've learned from from studying

1753
01:11:22,610 --> 01:11:20,940
this part and I think both Greg and I

1754
01:11:24,230 --> 01:11:22,620
tend to put a lot of emphasis on the

1755
01:11:25,730 --> 01:11:24,240
nature of perception consciousness

1756
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:25,740
memory and the act of seeing and how

1757
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:27,330
does that that work and one of the rules

1758
01:11:30,590 --> 01:11:29,130
about seeing is you see what you expect

1759
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:30,600
to see so as soon as you've bought

1760
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:32,370
yourself a new car for example suddenly

1761
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:33,600
you're going to be seeing that car all

1762
01:11:36,740 --> 01:11:35,280
over the place I didn't notice how many

1763
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:36,750
people were smoking in society until I

1764
01:11:41,660 --> 01:11:38,490
took up smoking again after a 16 year

1765
01:11:43,190 --> 01:11:41,670
absence and and I think that the the act

1766
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:43,200
of seeing needs to be looked at more

1767
01:11:47,570 --> 01:11:45,090
specifically more critically and that's

1768
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:47,580
what the essays at the close of the text

1769
01:11:51,050 --> 01:11:49,050
focus on one third of our brain is

1770
01:11:52,490 --> 01:11:51,060
devoted to seeing if you're a UFO

1771
01:11:53,660 --> 01:11:52,500
investigator and you're studying people

1772
01:11:55,250 --> 01:11:53,670
are seeing very strange and bizarre

1773
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:55,260
things and maybe we should take some

1774
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:57,570
time to think about how the very act of

1775
01:12:01,430 --> 01:12:00,000
seeing works what the role of memory is

1776
01:12:04,100 --> 01:12:01,440
when it comes to reporting that what's

1777
01:12:06,110 --> 01:12:04,110
been seen what else impacts and effects

1778
01:12:07,790 --> 01:12:06,120
the nature of seeing and how to seem

1779
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:07,800
even work in the first place especially

1780
01:12:11,390 --> 01:12:08,850
when it's confronted with something

1781
01:12:13,670 --> 01:12:11,400
perhaps that it can't see quite properly

1782
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:13,680
or it's never seen before or maybe even

1783
01:12:18,620 --> 01:12:16,350
stretches the boundaries of human

1784
01:12:20,210 --> 01:12:18,630
perception in the first place and so for

1785
01:12:22,340 --> 01:12:20,220
whatever reason why we might interact

1786
01:12:24,380 --> 01:12:22,350
with that external stimulus we should be

1787
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:24,390
thinking about why the reports come back

1788
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:25,770
the way they do because some of them are

1789
01:12:29,660 --> 01:12:27,930
absolutely utterly surreal and Greg

1790
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:29,670
makes some really good mention of one

1791
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:32,490
where I think it's 1966 Man Drive since

1792
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:34,170
he's a rocketship parked by the side of

1793
01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:34,980
the road

1794
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:36,630
and what comes out of it but walking

1795
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:39,330
beer cans with little probes coming so

1796
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:41,010
does that mean utterly surreal pieces

1797
01:12:45,050 --> 01:12:43,290
and ufology filled with those that we

1798
01:12:46,580 --> 01:12:45,060
don't take time to think about it it

1799
01:12:48,350 --> 01:12:46,590
certainly speaks to Gregg's you know

1800
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:48,360
major concept which is the idea of the

1801
01:12:53,330 --> 01:12:50,489
co-creation hypothesis that the human

1802
01:12:55,490 --> 01:12:53,340
witness is richly involved with helping

1803
01:12:58,190 --> 01:12:55,500
to create what in fact has been seen and

1804
01:13:00,770 --> 01:12:58,200
reported on I'd like to quote you

1805
01:13:02,750 --> 01:13:00,780
actually Rob but if I may in the body on

1806
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:02,760
that on the idea of seeing and

1807
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:05,130
perception you say that if we are to

1808
01:13:09,620 --> 01:13:07,830
better know the UFO then we must first

1809
01:13:12,260 --> 01:13:09,630
learn how to how to disentangle

1810
01:13:14,210 --> 01:13:12,270
ourselves from the hallucinatory nature

1811
01:13:16,580 --> 01:13:14,220
of seeing and accept that much of what

1812
01:13:18,710 --> 01:13:16,590
is reported in close encounter events is

1813
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:18,720
so very strange because it is beyond the

1814
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:20,250
borders of what can be witnessed and

1815
01:13:23,780 --> 01:13:22,050
Greg touches on similar themes as you

1816
01:13:25,670 --> 01:13:23,790
say says you know how much do we bring

1817
01:13:26,930 --> 01:13:25,680
to the dance in a paranormal encounter

1818
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:26,940
in other words how much of the UFO

1819
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:28,170
experience is the result of our

1820
01:13:31,670 --> 01:13:29,850
subconscious minds trying to make sense

1821
01:13:33,860 --> 01:13:31,680
of unexpected startling and or

1822
01:13:35,690 --> 01:13:33,870
frightening input and leaving us with an

1823
01:13:38,690 --> 01:13:35,700
insane placeholder when we can't decide

1824
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,700
on anything else so yeah you guys focus

1825
01:13:42,530 --> 01:13:40,560
on the idea of at the very moment of

1826
01:13:44,450 --> 01:13:42,540
seeing the very act of seeing and how

1827
01:13:45,830 --> 01:13:44,460
things can be distorted very

1828
01:13:47,660 --> 01:13:45,840
dramatically even in that moment

1829
01:13:50,330 --> 01:13:47,670
especially when confronted with

1830
01:13:52,610 --> 01:13:50,340
phenomena at the peripheries of of

1831
01:13:54,350 --> 01:13:52,620
everyday experience and then also then

1832
01:13:57,830 --> 01:13:54,360
when we come to recall those events how

1833
01:13:59,210 --> 01:13:57,840
much baggage we we add to that so that

1834
01:14:00,560 --> 01:13:59,220
what we actually report by the time we

1835
01:14:02,150 --> 01:14:00,570
actually come to report it and by the

1836
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:02,160
time then it's passed over to someone

1837
01:14:07,790 --> 01:14:06,090
else and and reported further how far is

1838
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:07,800
that from what was actually witnessed

1839
01:14:12,050 --> 01:14:09,450
and I think the answer is probably very

1840
01:14:13,610 --> 01:14:12,060
far in a lot of cases yeah I agree and

1841
01:14:14,690 --> 01:14:13,620
that's where you know Ruhr says just

1842
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:14,700
throw out the whole witness piece

1843
01:14:18,590 --> 01:14:17,280
altogether and Greg even asks you know

1844
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:18,600
it's being questioned in courts of law

1845
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:20,370
increasingly is that the truth and

1846
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:22,800
weight of witness testimony because I

1847
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:24,510
think the argument Greg and I both make

1848
01:14:27,470 --> 01:14:25,920
that what we are seeing is something

1849
01:14:29,570 --> 01:14:27,480
that's perhaps at the edges of human

1850
01:14:32,660 --> 01:14:29,580
perception are at the edge of the

1851
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:32,670
capacity of our biology that we need to

1852
01:14:36,290 --> 01:14:34,080
look a little bit more carefully at

1853
01:14:38,660 --> 01:14:36,300
maybe who that witness is what was going

1854
01:14:40,190 --> 01:14:38,670
on before they saw what they saw what

1855
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:40,200
happened during what happened after and

1856
01:14:43,670 --> 01:14:42,330
be very careful with the nature of the

1857
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:43,680
questions that are being asked and

1858
01:14:47,810 --> 01:14:45,570
really just allow people to to tell

1859
01:14:48,870 --> 01:14:47,820
their story and get involved in in those

1860
01:14:50,970 --> 01:14:48,880
ways because it

1861
01:14:52,590 --> 01:14:50,980
a very complex event this witnessing of

1862
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:52,600
that alien ship or whatever you want to

1863
01:14:56,430 --> 01:14:55,330
describe it as you ap UFO and and you

1864
01:14:58,140 --> 01:14:56,440
know just thinking about my own

1865
01:14:59,820 --> 01:14:58,150
experience and seeing two ships on an

1866
01:15:01,410 --> 01:14:59,830
ice rink when I was nine I still

1867
01:15:03,450 --> 01:15:01,420
remember that one of the first thoughts

1868
01:15:05,129 --> 01:15:03,460
that came into my head as one ship

1869
01:15:06,959 --> 01:15:05,139
started descending closer to us on the

1870
01:15:08,399 --> 01:15:06,969
rink is in my mind I heard a voice say

1871
01:15:10,709 --> 01:15:08,409
you know what's going to happen next

1872
01:15:12,959 --> 01:15:10,719
you're going to get abducted so now

1873
01:15:15,060 --> 01:15:12,969
something had to inform that prior to me

1874
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:15,070
seeing that obviously I am front loaded

1875
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:17,530
with you know cultural baggage that is

1876
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:19,330
defining the experience as it's

1877
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:21,250
happening right in front of me and so we

1878
01:15:24,209 --> 01:15:22,810
need to be quite thoughtful about the

1879
01:15:26,939 --> 01:15:24,219
nature of perception and consciousness

1880
01:15:29,629 --> 01:15:26,949
and and how these things intersect with

1881
01:15:32,580 --> 01:15:29,639
something is awesome as witnessing a UFO

1882
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:32,590
I'm loving this man this this is what I

1883
01:15:34,979 --> 01:15:33,250
live for

1884
01:15:38,820 --> 01:15:34,989
when it comes to this I mean I've been

1885
01:15:40,649 --> 01:15:38,830
screaming for 25 years that it's not so

1886
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:40,659
much what's being experienced it's

1887
01:15:46,979 --> 01:15:43,570
important it's the experiencer and why

1888
01:15:48,780 --> 01:15:46,989
that particular person was selected by

1889
01:15:50,820 --> 01:15:48,790
chance to have that particular

1890
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:50,830
experience at that particular time in

1891
01:15:55,890 --> 01:15:53,520
their in their day night life

1892
01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:55,900
multi-generational life who knows how

1893
01:16:00,629 --> 01:15:58,480
deeply rooted some of these experiences

1894
01:16:02,729 --> 01:16:00,639
can be and after you've talked with the

1895
01:16:05,100 --> 01:16:02,739
three generations of individuals that

1896
01:16:08,270 --> 01:16:05,110
have had experiences it really starts to

1897
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:08,280
make you question the very nature of

1898
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:12,370
consensual reality are we actually now

1899
01:16:17,729 --> 01:16:15,280
in in the in terms of the UFO realm are

1900
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:17,739
we actually handing down these sort of

1901
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:20,130
family and personal myths that are

1902
01:16:26,660 --> 01:16:23,250
co-creating an Inca manifesting

1903
01:16:29,580 --> 01:16:26,670
experience to validate you know our

1904
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historical sort of persona that we've

1905
01:16:35,850 --> 01:16:32,949
we've given ourselves will continue with

1906
01:16:38,430 --> 01:16:35,860
Chris O'Brien and gene Steinberg and

1907
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:38,440
Robbie Graham and Robert Branstetter and

1908
01:16:48,170 --> 01:16:52,980
thank you for listening to GCN

1909
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1910
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1939
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1940
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1941
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1942
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1943
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1944
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sleep very well and have a lot more

1945
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1946
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accidentally that I was bleeding much

1947
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1948
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bright red previously I didn't believe

1949
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much at all

1950
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it was dark red color so I know this

1951
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1952
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1953
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1954
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1955
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1956
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1957
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1961
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1964
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1970
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1975
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1976
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1977
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1978
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1980
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1981
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1990
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1991
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1992
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1993
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1994
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1996
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1997
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1998
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1999
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2000
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2001
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2004
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2006
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2007
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[Music]

2008
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:08,160
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

2009
01:21:12,050 --> 01:21:10,140
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

2010
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:12,060
disclosure and you are listening to the

2011
01:21:16,580 --> 01:21:14,239
para cast the gold standard of

2012
01:21:22,910 --> 01:21:16,590
paranormal radio

2013
01:21:25,430 --> 01:21:22,920
[Music]

2014
01:21:28,370 --> 01:21:25,440
Chris O'Brien was starting on something

2015
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:28,380
that's certainly worth considering Chris

2016
01:21:32,660 --> 01:21:30,719
well I wasn't really starting on

2017
01:21:35,270 --> 01:21:32,670
something I'm just acknowledging that

2018
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:35,280
finally you know I think my thinking and

2019
01:21:40,010 --> 01:21:37,170
David Perkins and a number of people

2020
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:40,020
chockful a messages of deception it's

2021
01:21:45,020 --> 01:21:43,050
just one of those classic anybody who's

2022
01:21:47,149 --> 01:21:45,030
interested in these subjects has got to

2023
01:21:50,510 --> 01:21:47,159
read that book because it lays it out in

2024
01:21:54,770 --> 01:21:50,520
with no you know uncertain terms that

2025
01:21:57,590 --> 01:21:54,780
this whole area is is a perfect petri

2026
01:22:00,410 --> 01:21:57,600
dish for societal manipulation you know

2027
01:22:05,979 --> 01:22:00,420
if we can conceive of doing that as a

2028
01:22:08,510 --> 01:22:05,989
bunch of evolved Apes basically imagine

2029
01:22:10,879 --> 01:22:08,520
some sort of intelligence whether it's

2030
01:22:13,700 --> 01:22:10,889
extraterrestrial or terrestrial for for

2031
01:22:15,770 --> 01:22:13,710
that matter that it's a thousand years

2032
01:22:18,709 --> 01:22:15,780
ahead of us ten thousand years a million

2033
01:22:20,359 --> 01:22:18,719
years imagine that the types of

2034
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:20,369
programming that they could do with

2035
01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:23,250
basic primal symbols and images to

2036
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:27,030
subtly steer mass collective human

2037
01:22:31,010 --> 01:22:29,040
behavior and belief the mind boggles

2038
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:31,020
when you really look at the implications

2039
01:22:37,310 --> 01:22:34,050
of the UFO phenomenon and get beyond the

2040
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:37,320
basic I'm so tired of looking at the

2041
01:22:42,169 --> 01:22:39,600
internet and somebody you know posting

2042
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:42,179
some oh look at this incredible sighting

2043
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:45,090
and it's somebody has literally lifted a

2044
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:47,489
billy meier beam ship or a George

2045
01:22:53,540 --> 01:22:50,610
Adamski image and and superimposed it on

2046
01:22:57,109 --> 01:22:53,550
some scene it's just so obvious to me

2047
01:22:59,959 --> 01:22:57,119
that we are being led by our collective

2048
01:23:02,600 --> 01:22:59,969
nose in a particular direction and it's

2049
01:23:04,609 --> 01:23:02,610
only like people arabiya has you know

2050
01:23:07,189 --> 01:23:04,619
been able to crawl together for this

2051
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:07,199
book and and we including myself and a

2052
01:23:12,020 --> 01:23:09,210
number of other very very creative

2053
01:23:13,700 --> 01:23:12,030
thinkers who are even aware that there's

2054
01:23:16,910 --> 01:23:13,710
a potential that there's something more

2055
01:23:21,620 --> 01:23:16,920
going on than the simple ETH you know

2056
01:23:23,660 --> 01:23:21,630
I'm Gregg his dog me and JP you know red

2057
01:23:25,970 --> 01:23:23,670
red pill junky is his dog knee about

2058
01:23:29,270 --> 01:23:25,980
being too concerned about the true

2059
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:29,280
believers and there's no need to try to

2060
01:23:35,959 --> 01:23:31,050
pull them out of there

2061
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:35,969
you know shallow very laughable

2062
01:23:40,700 --> 01:23:38,639
system there's no point I mean it's

2063
01:23:44,049 --> 01:23:40,710
almost like you know they couldn't even

2064
01:23:46,370 --> 01:23:44,059
begin to conceive of what is going on

2065
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:46,380
based on their their their total

2066
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:48,090
entrenchment and into that particular

2067
01:23:53,359 --> 01:23:51,690
mode so it's their thing it's doing them

2068
01:23:55,399 --> 01:23:53,369
well leave them alone

2069
01:23:58,910 --> 01:23:55,409
I don't agree with that and I think

2070
01:24:01,969 --> 01:23:58,920
Robbie's book this compilation book is a

2071
01:24:04,250 --> 01:24:01,979
huge step forward within two boards that

2072
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:04,260
you can open the thing up and and really

2073
01:24:10,580 --> 01:24:07,050
gain some insight into the more creative

2074
01:24:14,330 --> 01:24:10,590
thinkers in the field and and creative

2075
01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:14,340
perspectives that really get your you

2076
01:24:20,419 --> 01:24:17,360
know wheels of intellectual curiosity

2077
01:24:23,629 --> 01:24:20,429
kind of get them oiled and get them

2078
01:24:28,819 --> 01:24:23,639
starting to to function a little bit

2079
01:24:32,029 --> 01:24:28,829
more stridently uh so anyway my hat's

2080
01:24:34,609 --> 01:24:32,039
off to you guys um you know burnt a

2081
01:24:37,459 --> 01:24:34,619
really good way to finish the whole

2082
01:24:39,620 --> 01:24:37,469
thing up I really like Greg's idea of

2083
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:39,630
the co-creative process these are all

2084
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:43,530
really important avenues of thought that

2085
01:24:48,850 --> 01:24:45,570
have been proposed and I think anybody

2086
01:24:51,859 --> 01:24:48,860
who has a real you know real passion for

2087
01:24:53,839 --> 01:24:51,869
knowledge and understanding in the field

2088
01:24:57,140 --> 01:24:53,849
needs to start thinking along these

2089
01:25:00,200 --> 01:24:57,150
these you know avenues going down these

2090
01:25:02,390 --> 01:25:00,210
these these alleys and into some of them

2091
01:25:05,060 --> 01:25:02,400
are cul-de-sac some of them lead onto

2092
01:25:07,390 --> 01:25:05,070
two freeways I think it's important to

2093
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:07,400
explore these these creative thinking

2094
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:10,650
rationales and ideas and without that

2095
01:25:15,229 --> 01:25:12,210
we're going to be spinning our wheels

2096
01:25:17,660 --> 01:25:15,239
for another 70 years I'm sorry you know

2097
01:25:20,299 --> 01:25:17,670
I have an interesting dilemma that I see

2098
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:20,309
for something like this we have a number

2099
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:22,530
of people out there who are interested

2100
01:25:27,319 --> 01:25:24,239
in out-of-the-box thinking we'll buy a

2101
01:25:28,969 --> 01:25:27,329
book like this and we'll appreciate

2102
01:25:30,649 --> 01:25:28,979
what's being done whether they agree

2103
01:25:33,589 --> 01:25:30,659
with the essays or not

2104
01:25:36,500 --> 01:25:33,599
and I'm wondering then you're invited

2105
01:25:38,779 --> 01:25:36,510
onto a TV or radio show and they ask you

2106
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:38,789
to explain any of this and their

2107
01:25:45,109 --> 01:25:42,210
precondition with UFOs or spaceships

2108
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:45,119
they're solid craft the government knows

2109
01:25:49,250 --> 01:25:48,510
something there's disclosure involved

2110
01:25:52,700 --> 01:25:49,260
there's a sign

2111
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:52,710
screwball the old UFO memes aliens crash

2112
01:25:57,859 --> 01:25:55,530
at Roswell and how the heck do you tell

2113
01:26:01,790 --> 01:25:57,869
them any of this in a way they

2114
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:01,800
understand it can it be even marketed it

2115
01:26:06,109 --> 01:26:04,050
content to this book you mean yeah how

2116
01:26:07,549 --> 01:26:06,119
do you market this to the masses or K

2117
01:26:09,649 --> 01:26:07,559
look probably not

2118
01:26:11,060 --> 01:26:09,659
Robert yeah I don't know if you can

2119
01:26:12,290 --> 01:26:11,070
market it to the masses I was thinking

2120
01:26:13,970 --> 01:26:12,300
about that question earlier you know

2121
01:26:15,649 --> 01:26:13,980
who's the book for and the book is for

2122
01:26:19,580 --> 01:26:15,659
skeptics because they're gonna find a

2123
01:26:22,910 --> 01:26:19,590
lot of you know critical in te th ante

2124
01:26:25,790 --> 01:26:22,920
UFO as religion kind of thematic sin

2125
01:26:29,029 --> 01:26:25,800
here it's for believers because it

2126
01:26:31,149 --> 01:26:29,039
points to a lot of alternative ways of

2127
01:26:33,790 --> 01:26:31,159
thinking and kind of confirmations of

2128
01:26:37,970 --> 01:26:33,800
UFO reality based on very subjective

2129
01:26:39,259 --> 01:26:37,980
thinking but it's also for anybody who's

2130
01:26:41,330 --> 01:26:39,269
been stuck in the middle and is

2131
01:26:43,310 --> 01:26:41,340
extremely curious about it and we know

2132
01:26:44,870 --> 01:26:43,320
from you know the forums for example

2133
01:26:47,419 --> 01:26:44,880
there's a lot of really deeply curious

2134
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:47,429
people that aren't necessarily satisfied

2135
01:26:51,799 --> 01:26:50,250
with one answer or the other and want to

2136
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:51,809
investigate the middle ground and I

2137
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:54,090
think this book investigates middle

2138
01:26:57,649 --> 01:26:56,010
ground in such a rich way because

2139
01:26:59,779 --> 01:26:57,659
there's so many dynamic writers that

2140
01:27:00,979 --> 01:26:59,789
work contrary to each other as well as

2141
01:27:02,750 --> 01:27:00,989
one of the things if you read the book

2142
01:27:04,850 --> 01:27:02,760
from beginning to end there is an

2143
01:27:06,830 --> 01:27:04,860
evolution of some very specific themes

2144
01:27:09,049 --> 01:27:06,840
that are at work that lead the reader I

2145
01:27:11,839 --> 01:27:09,059
think to a pretty pretty interesting you

2146
01:27:14,419 --> 01:27:11,849
know new new ways of visioning things so

2147
01:27:17,029 --> 01:27:14,429
in that way I think the market best is

2148
01:27:18,950 --> 01:27:17,039
to anybody who's never read a UFO book

2149
01:27:20,839 --> 01:27:18,960
before and you're interested then take

2150
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:20,849
this one because as Robbie mentioned

2151
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:22,050
elsewhere you know this will save you

2152
01:27:26,629 --> 01:27:24,090
about ten years of misery and buying a

2153
01:27:28,370 --> 01:27:26,639
bunch of bunk that's out there that is

2154
01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:28,380
just based on belief systems and here's

2155
01:27:32,060 --> 01:27:30,510
some good critical thinking that I think

2156
01:27:35,020 --> 01:27:32,070
no matter where you come from in the

2157
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:35,030
field you'll be satisfied and angry and

2158
01:27:39,799 --> 01:27:37,679
interested yeah I say I say in my

2159
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:39,809
introduction to the book I say if by

2160
01:27:43,580 --> 01:27:41,610
some slim chance this is the first book

2161
01:27:44,990 --> 01:27:43,590
you've ever picked up I'm afraid you've

2162
01:27:46,549 --> 01:27:45,000
thrown yourself in at the very deep end

2163
01:27:48,410 --> 01:27:46,559
of the pool but that's all the more

2164
01:27:50,180 --> 01:27:48,420
reason to push on with it if you do so I

2165
01:27:51,919 --> 01:27:50,190
feel confident in stating at the wider

2166
01:27:54,169 --> 01:27:51,929
you for logical waters will seem clearer

2167
01:27:55,669 --> 01:27:54,179
and more navigable and I think that's

2168
01:27:57,020 --> 01:27:55,679
that's the case really you know I do

2169
01:28:01,220 --> 01:27:57,030
kind of wish that I've read something

2170
01:28:03,740 --> 01:28:01,230
like this only 15 16 17 years ago

2171
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:03,750
I at least have been exposed to these

2172
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:05,489
ideas even if even if these ideas didn't

2173
01:28:08,750 --> 01:28:07,290
really sink in at the time at least that

2174
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:08,760
at least that I'd have been exposed to

2175
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:10,650
them and I think that's what's important

2176
01:28:14,690 --> 01:28:12,239
I think a lot of this these ideas are

2177
01:28:17,030 --> 01:28:14,700
just shut out of mainstream ecological

2178
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:17,040
debate right now and have been for quite

2179
01:28:22,150 --> 01:28:19,110
some time and I've never really managed

2180
01:28:26,180 --> 01:28:22,160
to get a foothold outside a very small

2181
01:28:27,830 --> 01:28:26,190
group of dedicated thinkers but but that

2182
01:28:30,350 --> 01:28:27,840
says it's trying to bring these ideas to

2183
01:28:32,150 --> 01:28:30,360
more popular readership really and it

2184
01:28:33,770 --> 01:28:32,160
really is rooted in the annals of

2185
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:33,780
ufology that was brought up earlier in

2186
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:34,890
the show too and if you look at the

2187
01:28:39,110 --> 01:28:37,170
footnotes from people and in the index

2188
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:39,120
and see who's referenced inside there

2189
01:28:43,250 --> 01:28:41,370
this is well rooted within the Canon of

2190
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:43,260
I think perhaps what's good you falah

2191
01:28:47,990 --> 01:28:46,410
djegal thinking that that the writers in

2192
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:48,000
here are picking up from very

2193
01:28:51,650 --> 01:28:49,920
interesting voices unique voices

2194
01:28:53,900 --> 01:28:51,660
thoughtful more than some of the more

2195
01:28:55,940 --> 01:28:53,910
critical voices I know Feli is is

2196
01:28:58,010 --> 01:28:55,950
mentioned you know gazillion of times in

2197
01:28:59,660 --> 01:28:58,020
there and I think one of the more

2198
01:29:01,880 --> 01:28:59,670
important new contemporary thinkers

2199
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:01,890
great bishop is has got a number of

2200
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:04,050
references in there as well and so on

2201
01:29:08,090 --> 01:29:05,610
that way it does speak to an ongoing

2202
01:29:10,130 --> 01:29:08,100
dialogue within the field and trying to

2203
01:29:12,380 --> 01:29:10,140
maybe pull out some of the the threads

2204
01:29:13,910 --> 01:29:12,390
what's the best as well as the worst and

2205
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:13,920
and how to start thinking more

2206
01:29:19,190 --> 01:29:17,250
critically about the field yeah you know

2207
01:29:21,970 --> 01:29:19,200
I was thinking here about where some of

2208
01:29:24,770 --> 01:29:21,980
the cutting-edge thought I encountered

2209
01:29:26,390 --> 01:29:24,780
originated I don't know if you guys know

2210
01:29:28,100 --> 01:29:26,400
someone who's been on the show an old

2211
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:28,110
friend of mine named Alan marine field

2212
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:30,930
and he was doing some of this way back

2213
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:34,770
in the 60s and we were then talking

2214
01:29:39,380 --> 01:29:37,530
about a multiverse and UFOs from other

2215
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:39,390
dimensions as you know one of the things

2216
01:29:42,770 --> 01:29:40,800
we should at least talk about consider

2217
01:29:45,229 --> 01:29:42,780
alternatives and he had something called

2218
01:29:47,510 --> 01:29:45,239
the alternate horizons newsletter that

2219
01:29:52,130 --> 01:29:47,520
had to have a circulation of about ten

2220
01:29:54,710 --> 01:29:52,140
because nobody cared you know we look at

2221
01:29:57,380 --> 01:29:54,720
the house this guy I don't know he's one

2222
01:29:59,900 --> 01:29:57,390
of those wacky people come into the UFO

2223
01:30:03,470 --> 01:29:59,910
field and then we had John keel talking

2224
01:30:06,350 --> 01:30:03,480
about his ultra terrestrials and all

2225
01:30:10,220 --> 01:30:06,360
this other stuff but I saw that happen

2226
01:30:13,610 --> 01:30:10,230
and I saw attempts made to leave the

2227
01:30:15,169 --> 01:30:13,620
Donald Kehoe faction of ufology and it

2228
01:30:18,679 --> 01:30:15,179
kind of just faded out I guess

2229
01:30:20,779 --> 01:30:18,689
in the 70s let me do our break and we'll

2230
01:30:23,060 --> 01:30:20,789
get into more of this the title of the

2231
01:30:26,569 --> 01:30:23,070
book is UFOs reframing the debates a

2232
01:30:29,359 --> 01:30:26,579
series of essays that try to take new

2233
01:30:31,549 --> 01:30:29,369
looks at this phenomenon we have one of

2234
01:30:34,189 --> 01:30:31,559
the essayists Robert Branstetter the

2235
01:30:37,129 --> 01:30:34,199
editor Robbie Graham we've got Jean and

2236
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Chris we're having a whale of a time but

2237
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we're not talking about the whales

2238
01:30:57,669 --> 01:30:52,510
thank you for listening to GCS

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the IRS for over thirty years I've

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I'm telling you there's no such thing as

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a hopeless case call 834 no tax to

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834 no tax that's eight hundred three

2340
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four no tax or my website Dan pillow

2341
01:35:08,300 --> 01:35:06,020
this is the wrong tire co-author of the

2342
01:35:10,670 --> 01:35:08,310
f1 cyclope in other books you're

2343
01:35:19,300 --> 01:35:10,680
listening to the podcast

2344
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:19,310
[Music]

2345
01:35:33,020 --> 01:35:28,939
but you get my point here this was tried

2346
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:33,030
in some ways way back when and maybe it

2347
01:35:37,820 --> 01:35:35,130
was in the right time and can we hope

2348
01:35:41,919 --> 01:35:37,830
this is the right time I think that

2349
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:41,929
people in the UM in the mainstream UFO

2350
01:35:46,070 --> 01:35:44,400
school of thought I guess which does

2351
01:35:49,010 --> 01:35:46,080
revolve around the notion of disclosure

2352
01:35:50,470 --> 01:35:49,020
for better or for worse I think I think

2353
01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:50,480
an increasing number of people are

2354
01:35:55,970 --> 01:35:53,280
starting to become disillusioned and

2355
01:35:59,000 --> 01:35:55,980
I've seen I've seen that directly I have

2356
01:36:01,250 --> 01:35:59,010
to say I think people a number of people

2357
01:36:02,780 --> 01:36:01,260
a surprising number of people I think

2358
01:36:05,540 --> 01:36:02,790
are starting to open their minds a

2359
01:36:10,430 --> 01:36:05,550
little bit to some more abstract lines

2360
01:36:13,220 --> 01:36:10,440
of inquiry with with UFOs and I think

2361
01:36:16,010 --> 01:36:13,230
you know year after year of promises of

2362
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:16,020
disclosure leading to absolutely nothing

2363
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:18,570
I think is starting to wear thin

2364
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:24,090
with with some people and so I think I

2365
01:36:26,660 --> 01:36:25,290
think the tide is already turning to be

2366
01:36:29,270 --> 01:36:26,670
honest I think more people a new

2367
01:36:31,939 --> 01:36:29,280
generation perhaps is starting to become

2368
01:36:34,220 --> 01:36:31,949
more open-minded and less simplistic in

2369
01:36:37,189 --> 01:36:34,230
their approaches to this again I want to

2370
01:36:38,570 --> 01:36:37,199
state that I don't project the

2371
01:36:41,780 --> 01:36:38,580
extraterrestrial I don't reject the

2372
01:36:43,459 --> 01:36:41,790
extra-terrestrial hypothesis but I think

2373
01:36:44,660 --> 01:36:43,469
that what we're dealing with and I do

2374
01:36:46,850 --> 01:36:44,670
believe you are dealing with something

2375
01:36:49,010 --> 01:36:46,860
genuinely anomalous is far more complex

2376
01:36:50,859 --> 01:36:49,020
and multifaceted than just aliens

2377
01:36:54,859 --> 01:36:50,869
visiting us in metal spaceship from

2378
01:36:56,419 --> 01:36:54,869
spaceships from another solar system but

2379
01:36:58,729 --> 01:36:56,429
but that could well in in my opinion

2380
01:37:00,320 --> 01:36:58,739
have some part in it other contributors

2381
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:00,330
to this book would strongly disagree

2382
01:37:04,459 --> 01:37:02,850
with me and I think that's the value

2383
01:37:06,919 --> 01:37:04,469
again of what we're doing here is we are

2384
01:37:08,870 --> 01:37:06,929
we are trying to present clashing

2385
01:37:10,399 --> 01:37:08,880
conflicting perspectives within one

2386
01:37:13,310 --> 01:37:10,409
volume so that you are completely

2387
01:37:14,270 --> 01:37:13,320
confused about about about what to

2388
01:37:16,070 --> 01:37:14,280
believe in the idea is that you

2389
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:16,080
shouldn't believe anything so I don't

2390
01:37:20,209 --> 01:37:17,610
know what do you think Robert in terms

2391
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:20,219
of it is the tide turning I don't know

2392
01:37:24,350 --> 01:37:22,530
I'm not sure I mean if one reads this

2393
01:37:26,330 --> 01:37:24,360
book one might say wow there's some very

2394
01:37:27,859 --> 01:37:26,340
interesting tides that are swirling a

2395
01:37:29,689 --> 01:37:27,869
out that are pulling together a lot of

2396
01:37:32,089 --> 01:37:29,699
different unique threads both from like

2397
01:37:34,810 --> 01:37:32,099
kind of recent investigations into

2398
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:34,820
consciousness into memory and perception

2399
01:37:43,430 --> 01:37:38,880
information theory Greg delves into up

2400
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:43,440
against those other notions of the UFO

2401
01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:46,170
itself purely as a is a symbol operating

2402
01:37:51,950 --> 01:37:48,960
at work within the species that is

2403
01:37:53,209 --> 01:37:51,960
altering us in very unique ways causing

2404
01:37:56,450 --> 01:37:53,219
us to think and reflect upon ourselves

2405
01:37:59,359 --> 01:37:56,460
our science as perhaps as being in

2406
01:38:01,310 --> 01:37:59,369
deficit it pushes our boundaries of

2407
01:38:03,530 --> 01:38:01,320
thinking in many ways and I think one of

2408
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:03,540
the things I like about the essays in

2409
01:38:07,339 --> 01:38:05,610
here and I wish that there were more

2410
01:38:11,300 --> 01:38:07,349
books you know moving in this direction

2411
01:38:13,370 --> 01:38:11,310
is that it uses the UFO as as an

2412
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:13,380
imaginative symbol in some ways to say

2413
01:38:17,209 --> 01:38:15,449
well what else can we learn about

2414
01:38:19,790 --> 01:38:17,219
ourselves and the human experience

2415
01:38:21,620 --> 01:38:19,800
through that given that we can't name

2416
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:21,630
the truth of it and come up with an

2417
01:38:25,550 --> 01:38:23,610
answer and measure it or replicate it in

2418
01:38:27,919 --> 01:38:25,560
any way well how can we study the rest

2419
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:27,929
of it to see what what other truths are

2420
01:38:31,490 --> 01:38:29,730
there that we might be able to tease and

2421
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:31,500
pull out from investigating different

2422
01:38:36,530 --> 01:38:33,330
related disciplines you know because it

2423
01:38:39,109 --> 01:38:36,540
covers everything from neurobiology to

2424
01:38:42,169 --> 01:38:39,119
information theory to the nature of

2425
01:38:43,729 --> 01:38:42,179
perception memory psychology it

2426
01:38:46,430 --> 01:38:43,739
investigates so many different fields

2427
01:38:50,510 --> 01:38:46,440
and I think rpj says this and I say this

2428
01:38:52,939 --> 01:38:50,520
that it is a very flexible phenomenon

2429
01:38:54,290 --> 01:38:52,949
that encourages human beings to actually

2430
01:38:56,510 --> 01:38:54,300
pursue knowledge and knowledge about

2431
01:38:58,490 --> 01:38:56,520
themselves in very unique ways yeah

2432
01:39:01,160 --> 01:38:58,500
again one of the things I say is that

2433
01:39:03,919 --> 01:39:01,170
the role of the of the witness in UFO

2434
01:39:07,010 --> 01:39:03,929
events is typically is overlooked by UFO

2435
01:39:08,689 --> 01:39:07,020
investigators whose focus is on what the

2436
01:39:10,250 --> 01:39:08,699
witness is seen rather than why they

2437
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:10,260
have seen your how they've interpreted

2438
01:39:14,510 --> 01:39:12,570
it and so the assumption is quite

2439
01:39:17,149 --> 01:39:14,520
strangely that the UFO witness is is

2440
01:39:20,450 --> 01:39:17,159
almost independent of their anomalous

2441
01:39:22,490 --> 01:39:20,460
experiences you know the people

2442
01:39:23,959 --> 01:39:22,500
interpret the popular interpretation if

2443
01:39:27,649 --> 01:39:23,969
you're for experiences is that something

2444
01:39:31,070 --> 01:39:27,659
external is happening to a completely

2445
01:39:33,050 --> 01:39:31,080
independent observer and whereas when

2446
01:39:34,970 --> 01:39:33,060
did you even start to think about that

2447
01:39:37,669 --> 01:39:34,980
for a moment that's that's very very

2448
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:37,679
simplistic way of looking at this and

2449
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:39,449
that's why you know for example

2450
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:41,850
and Robert another SS in the book

2451
01:39:48,350 --> 01:39:45,570
encourage that the focus should be more

2452
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:48,360
internal and external we we if we seek

2453
01:39:51,860 --> 01:39:50,010
to understand you know the complexities

2454
01:39:53,810 --> 01:39:51,870
of human cognition and consciousness

2455
01:39:56,209 --> 01:39:53,820
itself then we might better understand

2456
01:39:59,090 --> 01:39:56,219
the UFO and then maybe better understand

2457
01:40:00,680 --> 01:39:59,100
ourselves okay I certainly hope we'd

2458
01:40:04,220 --> 01:40:00,690
have another response there but I'll

2459
01:40:06,950 --> 01:40:04,230
just jump in here all right there you go

2460
01:40:08,689 --> 01:40:06,960
cut off yeah I my audios been flashing

2461
01:40:10,090 --> 01:40:08,699
in and out all right go ahead go ahead

2462
01:40:14,300 --> 01:40:10,100
Robert okay

2463
01:40:15,860 --> 01:40:14,310
certainly I think that a core component

2464
01:40:18,050 --> 01:40:15,870
of the text that is important is it does

2465
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:18,060
move into contemporary science and it

2466
01:40:24,650 --> 01:40:21,570
does try to examine the very act of what

2467
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:24,660
it is to experience reality itself one

2468
01:40:28,220 --> 01:40:26,010
of the scientists that gets mentioned

2469
01:40:30,020 --> 01:40:28,230
twice as Donald Hoffman who looks at

2470
01:40:31,459 --> 01:40:30,030
this theory of conscious realism and

2471
01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:31,469
what in fact is the nature of reality

2472
01:40:35,510 --> 01:40:33,440
and our experience of reality and

2473
01:40:37,550 --> 01:40:35,520
recognizing that the human sensory

2474
01:40:39,860 --> 01:40:37,560
apparatus has been built as a function

2475
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:39,870
of evolution so the way that we see and

2476
01:40:44,959 --> 01:40:42,690
experience reality is based totally on

2477
01:40:46,430 --> 01:40:44,969
the nature of our sensory system and how

2478
01:40:48,590 --> 01:40:46,440
that's evolved and it's evolved so it

2479
01:40:50,060 --> 01:40:48,600
can suit us best and what Hoffman

2480
01:40:52,100 --> 01:40:50,070
highlights is is that our version of

2481
01:40:54,830 --> 01:40:52,110
reality is a very limited one there may

2482
01:40:56,390 --> 01:40:54,840
be far more dynamic things taking place

2483
01:40:57,860 --> 01:40:56,400
that are beyond our perception that you

2484
01:40:58,850 --> 01:40:57,870
know other species perhaps are able to

2485
01:41:00,740 --> 01:40:58,860
interact with in the way that

2486
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:00,750
butterflies have x-ray vision and dogs

2487
01:41:04,580 --> 01:41:02,489
here you know at frequencies that were

2488
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:04,590
incapable of so our version of reality

2489
01:41:10,910 --> 01:41:07,650
is limited in what Hoffman opens the

2490
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:10,920
door up for is that we me during rare

2491
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:13,290
occasions for whatever reason is taking

2492
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:14,730
place on the witness in that moment and

2493
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:16,770
whatever that external stimulus is be

2494
01:41:20,870 --> 01:41:18,690
intersecting with something that is

2495
01:41:22,310 --> 01:41:20,880
perhaps a very common part of reality as

2496
01:41:24,229 --> 01:41:22,320
Greg Bishop once described us and like

2497
01:41:26,030 --> 01:41:24,239
waves in the water might be extremely

2498
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:26,040
common but for whatever reason the right

2499
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:28,410
circumstances are there that cause us to

2500
01:41:32,780 --> 01:41:30,330
intersect with it and then see something

2501
01:41:35,090 --> 01:41:32,790
absolutely incredible that is often

2502
01:41:38,330 --> 01:41:35,100
quite surreal very bizarre and absurd in

2503
01:41:40,729 --> 01:41:38,340
its presentation to us and that perhaps

2504
01:41:43,250 --> 01:41:40,739
this is the rich source of where the UFO

2505
01:41:44,810 --> 01:41:43,260
is some type of commonplace you know

2506
01:41:46,910 --> 01:41:44,820
could be an entity could be an

2507
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:46,920
intelligence could be non conscious and

2508
01:41:52,569 --> 01:41:50,570
is something that we see by chance

2509
01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:52,579
given the right circumstance and causes

2510
01:41:57,760 --> 01:41:55,250
us to experience a whole new set of

2511
01:42:00,100 --> 01:41:57,770
perceptions that is not normally common

2512
01:42:01,750 --> 01:42:00,110
to the human experience but let me throw

2513
01:42:04,810 --> 01:42:01,760
another possibility out for you

2514
01:42:09,220 --> 01:42:04,820
that is the UFO will never be there

2515
01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:09,230
unless we're prepared or causing it to

2516
01:42:13,300 --> 01:42:11,510
happen I don't know how much about the

2517
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:13,310
cause piece like I think there's some

2518
01:42:16,569 --> 01:42:14,810
cases where you get the sense that

2519
01:42:17,859 --> 01:42:16,579
certainly there were things perhaps on

2520
01:42:20,290 --> 01:42:17,869
the mind of that individual ahead of

2521
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:20,300
time especially in abductee cases where

2522
01:42:23,500 --> 01:42:21,530
there's some interesting front-loading

2523
01:42:25,419 --> 01:42:23,510
and perhaps mental destabilization or

2524
01:42:27,100 --> 01:42:25,429
trauma taking place that causes things

2525
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:27,110
to unfold as they do but you know I've

2526
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:28,610
talked with people who you know we're

2527
01:42:31,689 --> 01:42:30,170
driving home from Cub Scouts one day

2528
01:42:34,330 --> 01:42:31,699
with with their dad and they come around

2529
01:42:36,310 --> 01:42:34,340
the corner and boom there's a UFO you

2530
01:42:38,260 --> 01:42:36,320
know in a field right beside the road

2531
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:38,270
you know you know like I totally agree

2532
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:40,250
with that too I think there's way too

2533
01:42:46,870 --> 01:42:44,690
much there's a weird sort of sort of

2534
01:42:49,180 --> 01:42:46,880
counterintuitive synchronicity going on

2535
01:42:52,030 --> 01:42:49,190
you'll when you least expect something

2536
01:42:56,410 --> 01:42:52,040
to happen is is most of the time when it

2537
01:42:58,780 --> 01:42:56,420
does happen hmm but I know people who

2538
01:43:00,129 --> 01:42:58,790
have experienced very close to what

2539
01:43:02,620 --> 01:43:00,139
Roberts just said you know people

2540
01:43:06,430 --> 01:43:02,630
driving at night you know having a

2541
01:43:07,629 --> 01:43:06,440
conversation on anything but UFOs and

2542
01:43:09,430 --> 01:43:07,639
all of a sudden turning around a corner

2543
01:43:12,220 --> 01:43:09,440
and boom literally almost crashing into

2544
01:43:14,229 --> 01:43:12,230
a crashing into a hovering flying saucer

2545
01:43:16,629 --> 01:43:14,239
which certainly rapidly departs and

2546
01:43:18,430 --> 01:43:16,639
cetera cetera leaving apparent physical

2547
01:43:20,410 --> 01:43:18,440
evidence investigated by the Ministry of

2548
01:43:23,950 --> 01:43:20,420
Defense you know completely bizarre

2549
01:43:26,260 --> 01:43:23,960
stuff but then at the same time also I

2550
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:26,270
know people who have who believe they

2551
01:43:36,209 --> 01:43:32,090
have actually manifested UFOs into into

2552
01:43:41,589 --> 01:43:36,219
existence in a given moment through

2553
01:43:44,140 --> 01:43:41,599
through intense focus and you know

2554
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:44,150
simply through the active of intent and

2555
01:43:46,899 --> 01:43:44,810
ritual

2556
01:43:50,229 --> 01:43:46,909
well laying your hands on the doctor

2557
01:43:54,790 --> 01:43:50,239
that that's one that supposedly has real

2558
01:43:59,280 --> 01:43:54,800
good a real good track record well yeah

2559
01:44:01,780 --> 01:43:59,290
I mean and so I don't know it's just the

2560
01:44:04,390 --> 01:44:01,790
as I say the what I mean what we do in

2561
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:04,400
this book is we don't conclude and

2562
01:44:08,350 --> 01:44:06,530
and that's what Diana Basilico notes in

2563
01:44:09,580 --> 01:44:08,360
the introduction initially the value of

2564
01:44:13,570 --> 01:44:09,590
this is that is that the the

2565
01:44:15,610 --> 01:44:13,580
contributors are duly aware that the

2566
01:44:18,910 --> 01:44:15,620
value of not concluding you know of

2567
01:44:20,169 --> 01:44:18,920
bracketing the the note that look at the

2568
01:44:21,910 --> 01:44:20,179
question of what it is

2569
01:44:23,470 --> 01:44:21,920
and looking at the instead of the

2570
01:44:26,530 --> 01:44:23,480
effects the societal and cultural

2571
01:44:28,300 --> 01:44:26,540
effects of the phenomenon whatever it

2572
01:44:31,510 --> 01:44:28,310
represents whether its societal cultural

2573
01:44:32,649 --> 01:44:31,520
or physical or all of those what we can

2574
01:44:35,260 --> 01:44:32,659
measure is the societal and cultural

2575
01:44:37,510 --> 01:44:35,270
effects and by studying that we might

2576
01:44:39,070 --> 01:44:37,520
actually learn more about the phenomenon

2577
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:39,080
itself no I

2578
01:44:43,899 --> 01:44:41,449
this overlays perfectly into the cattle

2579
01:44:46,180 --> 01:44:43,909
mutilation realm in my last book which

2580
01:44:48,939 --> 01:44:46,190
is exactly what I did I presented all

2581
01:44:51,490 --> 01:44:48,949
the data all the theories and then kind

2582
01:44:53,649 --> 01:44:51,500
of left it up for the reader to stop

2583
01:44:57,580 --> 01:44:53,659
scratching their head and come down on

2584
01:45:00,189 --> 01:44:57,590
you know on some side of the argument to

2585
01:45:02,500 --> 01:45:00,199
some conclusion and I think that's the

2586
01:45:05,260 --> 01:45:02,510
best way to get people to think because

2587
01:45:08,020 --> 01:45:05,270
if you don't hand feed them a particular

2588
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:08,030
conclusion and you give them all sorts

2589
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:11,170
of tantalizing information and and data

2590
01:45:16,500 --> 01:45:13,730
to help them come to a conclusion I

2591
01:45:19,959 --> 01:45:16,510
think it's be infinitely more inspiring

2592
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:19,969
to not give the conclusion and allow all

2593
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:22,610
the the data and the perspective to to

2594
01:45:27,939 --> 01:45:25,610
create one in the reader in this case

2595
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:27,949
we've got more to come with gene Chris

2596
01:45:48,830 --> 01:45:42,680
you are listening to GCN

2597
01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:48,840
visit GCN live.com today we also have

2598
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swag you know we have all these

2599
01:45:54,620 --> 01:45:54,060
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2600
01:45:56,540 --> 01:45:54,630
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2601
01:45:59,390 --> 01:45:56,550
we've got like I guess 60 or so

2602
01:46:02,960 --> 01:45:59,400
different items and entails t-shirts

2603
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2604
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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

2605
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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

2606
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jackets and stuff like that for men and

2607
01:46:16,220 --> 01:46:13,650
women we have a para cast aluminum water

2608
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bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

2609
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to the power cast comm store dot the

2610
01:46:24,170 --> 01:46:21,630
power cast come what makes special is

2611
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2612
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2613
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2614
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2615
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2616
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2617
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2618
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large lot good stuff that's the swag

2619
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:44,040
from the para cast to go to store dot ^

2620
01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:47,130
cast calm stop by and take a shopping

2621
01:46:55,340 --> 01:46:51,810
tour maybe not today maybe not tomorrow

2622
01:46:56,180 --> 01:46:55,350
but soon you'll need a plan and place to

2623
01:46:58,040 --> 01:46:56,190
survive

2624
01:47:00,350 --> 01:46:58,050
forget bunkers you're not a live

2625
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:00,360
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2626
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:02,370
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2627
01:47:05,060 --> 01:47:03,090
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2628
01:47:07,100 --> 01:47:05,070
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2629
01:47:09,890 --> 01:47:07,110
equipped and custom built to outlast any

2630
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:09,900
other RV or trailer bold statement you

2631
01:47:15,080 --> 01:47:12,330
bet see him now at survivalist camps

2632
01:47:17,630 --> 01:47:15,090
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2633
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trust your family survival to survival

2634
01:47:22,970 --> 01:47:20,820
as Gamescom kiss your credit card debt

2635
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:22,980
goodbye i'm pharmacist Keith

2636
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:24,570
dr. Wallach the dead doctors don't lie

2637
01:47:28,250 --> 01:47:26,400
guy and myself want to show you how to

2638
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:28,260
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2639
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extra income that will last for years to

2640
01:47:34,149 --> 01:47:32,190
come by joining dr. wife's crusade

2641
01:47:37,060 --> 01:47:34,159
spreading his message a better

2642
01:47:40,060 --> 01:47:37,070
to learn more visit radio dot recorded

2643
01:47:43,810 --> 01:47:40,070
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2644
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2645
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2646
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2647
01:47:56,220 --> 01:47:52,800
[Applause]

2648
01:48:04,260 --> 01:47:59,920
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2649
01:48:12,790 --> 01:48:04,270
standard of paranormal radio and now

2650
01:48:16,170 --> 01:48:12,800
here's Jane Steinberg you know it comes

2651
01:48:18,490 --> 01:48:16,180
to mind as you talk about that Chris

2652
01:48:21,610 --> 01:48:18,500
something that our former co-host

2653
01:48:25,330 --> 01:48:21,620
mentioned on the air where he was giving

2654
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:25,340
a brief talk about UFOs before a MUFON

2655
01:48:32,860 --> 01:48:28,610
meeting in New York State and he got

2656
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:32,870
into all these fine details and somebody

2657
01:48:39,070 --> 01:48:34,370
said can you give me the Reader's Digest

2658
01:48:42,910 --> 01:48:39,080
version they wanted simple they wanted a

2659
01:48:44,410 --> 01:48:42,920
conclusion many many years ago and I

2660
01:48:46,990 --> 01:48:44,420
haven't done that many lectures but I've

2661
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:47,000
done a few I was giving a lecture before

2662
01:48:51,670 --> 01:48:48,800
a group in Atlanta

2663
01:48:54,460 --> 01:48:51,680
a group of which Allen Greenfield was

2664
01:48:57,340 --> 01:48:54,470
one of the sponsors and I gave a

2665
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:57,350
presentation of the evidence that

2666
01:49:01,720 --> 01:48:59,360
favored something going on

2667
01:49:03,670 --> 01:49:01,730
these are sightings that cry out for an

2668
01:49:05,950 --> 01:49:03,680
explanation now remember I was a lot

2669
01:49:07,030 --> 01:49:05,960
younger than I didn't have all the

2670
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:07,040
arguments intact

2671
01:49:14,170 --> 01:49:09,650
but they kept asking what's the answer

2672
01:49:16,450 --> 01:49:14,180
what's the conclusion I got a no they

2673
01:49:20,020 --> 01:49:16,460
wanted an answer and the people who give

2674
01:49:21,820 --> 01:49:20,030
them an answer a simple answer are the

2675
01:49:24,130 --> 01:49:21,830
ones who they'll pay attention to they

2676
01:49:26,370 --> 01:49:24,140
won't pay attention to me if I'm saying

2677
01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:26,380
we don't know where it is we've got a

2678
01:49:30,940 --> 01:49:28,490
phenomenon going on this is how they

2679
01:49:32,710 --> 01:49:30,950
want to be spoon-fed well that's that's

2680
01:49:34,480 --> 01:49:32,720
the appeal of the disclosure movement of

2681
01:49:37,180 --> 01:49:34,490
course because it's a narrative that has

2682
01:49:39,190 --> 01:49:37,190
a clear-cut ending and the ending is

2683
01:49:41,590 --> 01:49:39,200
disclosure of ultimate cosmic secrets

2684
01:49:44,530 --> 01:49:41,600
which fundamentally and quickly change

2685
01:49:46,300 --> 01:49:44,540
the world and and that's that's we you

2686
01:49:49,300 --> 01:49:46,310
know so that's that's easy to package

2687
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:49,310
and it's easy to kind of digest and and

2688
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:51,530
it's very very appealing but what's the

2689
01:49:56,560 --> 01:49:54,770
ending narrative li2 to what we're

2690
01:49:57,730 --> 01:49:56,570
presenting in this book and to what you

2691
01:50:00,370 --> 01:49:57,740
know the people presented before us

2692
01:50:02,440 --> 01:50:00,380
along similar lines well there is no

2693
01:50:04,180 --> 01:50:02,450
definitive ending to it and people don't

2694
01:50:06,810 --> 01:50:04,190
like that people like things to be

2695
01:50:08,740 --> 01:50:06,820
narrative I stand and digestible and

2696
01:50:10,780 --> 01:50:08,750
understandable and and

2697
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:10,790
and we like conclusions and we don't

2698
01:50:16,210 --> 01:50:13,730
offer any but I think there's value in

2699
01:50:17,770 --> 01:50:16,220
in letting go of of the need for

2700
01:50:19,060 --> 01:50:17,780
conclusions I think when it comes to

2701
01:50:21,850 --> 01:50:19,070
something like this and just being open

2702
01:50:23,470 --> 01:50:21,860
to possibilities and that's where a Greg

2703
01:50:25,780 --> 01:50:23,480
Bishop also you know advocates that

2704
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:25,790
notion is in sudomotor Sinclair as well

2705
01:50:29,530 --> 01:50:28,130
says you know ask ask more questions ask

2706
01:50:32,980 --> 01:50:29,540
more interesting questions be more

2707
01:50:36,010 --> 01:50:32,990
curious about it Greg does a great

2708
01:50:38,260 --> 01:50:36,020
advocacy piece for the Greek philosophy

2709
01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:38,270
of Piran ISM remain in a state of

2710
01:50:42,820 --> 01:50:41,210
perpetual inquiry as we cannot be

2711
01:50:45,130 --> 01:50:42,830
certain what new evidence will turn up

2712
01:50:47,170 --> 01:50:45,140
in the future so stay tentative and

2713
01:50:48,580 --> 01:50:47,180
continue the inquiry perón Ian's

2714
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:48,590
question accepted knowledge and

2715
01:50:53,650 --> 01:50:50,930
identified dogmatism as a disease of the

2716
01:50:55,450 --> 01:50:53,660
mind and I would say ufology has had a

2717
01:50:59,110 --> 01:50:55,460
disease of the mind for a great number

2718
01:51:00,910 --> 01:50:59,120
of decades and that needs to be pushed

2719
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:00,920
away and if we're going to push it away

2720
01:51:05,950 --> 01:51:03,920
then we have to be open to as valet says

2721
01:51:08,110 --> 01:51:05,960
you know stop bringing ideology to the

2722
01:51:10,030 --> 01:51:08,120
table you know as somebody who was once

2723
01:51:11,890 --> 01:51:10,040
you know a great proponent of ATH and

2724
01:51:14,020 --> 01:51:11,900
then since came and piled on a whole

2725
01:51:16,690 --> 01:51:14,030
bunch of other theoretical avenues he's

2726
01:51:18,820 --> 01:51:16,700
now telling us let's get rid of ideology

2727
01:51:21,220 --> 01:51:18,830
let's just start asking interesting

2728
01:51:23,380 --> 01:51:21,230
questions of it and see what else can be

2729
01:51:25,810 --> 01:51:23,390
learned from the witness experience if

2730
01:51:27,490 --> 01:51:25,820
we've got a lot of data which we do you

2731
01:51:29,350 --> 01:51:27,500
know maybe we can do something with all

2732
01:51:32,500 --> 01:51:29,360
of that and some sifting and that's you

2733
01:51:34,180 --> 01:51:32,510
know valets baby as well too but now for

2734
01:51:36,940 --> 01:51:34,190
the rest of us in terms of finding a new

2735
01:51:39,430 --> 01:51:36,950
way of thinking about it we need to be

2736
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:39,440
open to saying I don't know the answer

2737
01:51:43,690 --> 01:51:41,690
and who knows what new things will come

2738
01:51:46,180 --> 01:51:43,700
along in the future to give us better

2739
01:51:48,850 --> 01:51:46,190
answers to it so let's just be patient

2740
01:51:51,310 --> 01:51:48,860
with our our approach and be creative

2741
01:51:53,650 --> 01:51:51,320
and curious with it well and be diligent

2742
01:51:56,100 --> 01:51:53,660
to do absolutely absolutely

2743
01:51:58,450 --> 01:51:56,110
you'll make sure that we're actually

2744
01:52:00,280 --> 01:51:58,460
availing ourselves of all the wonderful

2745
01:52:03,420 --> 01:52:00,290
thinking that's out there and all these

2746
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:03,430
wonderful sort of counter intuitive

2747
01:52:08,380 --> 01:52:06,170
approaches to the subject matter the the

2748
01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:08,390
obvious ways have not worked and you

2749
01:52:14,650 --> 01:52:11,090
know we here at the Peres Caspi you know

2750
01:52:18,130 --> 01:52:14,660
we're real we sound like foghorns

2751
01:52:20,230 --> 01:52:18,140
echoing in in the in a foggy night by

2752
01:52:20,980 --> 01:52:20,240
saying this constantly the wheel is

2753
01:52:22,020 --> 01:52:20,990
broken

2754
01:52:28,140 --> 01:52:22,030
it's

2755
01:52:31,770 --> 01:52:28,150
down the ravine okay 70 years and we're

2756
01:52:34,290 --> 01:52:31,780
just we really are no no closer to any

2757
01:52:36,510 --> 01:52:34,300
definitive answers we think we know more

2758
01:52:39,660 --> 01:52:36,520
but it's the more you know the more

2759
01:52:42,779 --> 01:52:39,670
confused you become basically so amount

2760
01:52:45,330 --> 01:52:42,789
of knowledge does not equate um you know

2761
01:52:49,350 --> 01:52:45,340
some sort of a linear process towards a

2762
01:52:53,430 --> 01:52:49,360
solution and so we really need to become

2763
01:52:55,770 --> 01:52:53,440
very circumspect and pull back and you

2764
01:52:59,129 --> 01:52:55,780
know entertain entertain new thinking

2765
01:53:02,220 --> 01:52:59,139
entertain new ideas and you know perhaps

2766
01:53:04,109 --> 01:53:02,230
then the next generation will be able to

2767
01:53:05,729 --> 01:53:04,119
let go you know it's probably a force

2768
01:53:08,850 --> 01:53:05,739
for the trees thing it's probably so

2769
01:53:11,939 --> 01:53:08,860
obvious that there's just no way that

2770
01:53:15,450 --> 01:53:11,949
you can accidentally pick it up so you

2771
01:53:18,419 --> 01:53:15,460
know the time will tell huh it's just

2772
01:53:24,419 --> 01:53:18,429
very exciting I'm really gratified to

2773
01:53:26,250 --> 01:53:24,429
see books like this go ahead oh so yeah

2774
01:53:29,010 --> 01:53:26,260
to go along with what Chris is saying I

2775
01:53:31,140 --> 01:53:29,020
you know we have to be available to

2776
01:53:32,669 --> 01:53:31,150
looking at things from very very altered

2777
01:53:36,510 --> 01:53:32,679
perspectives and when we think about the

2778
01:53:38,399 --> 01:53:36,520
nature of the the UFO experience um you

2779
01:53:40,770 --> 01:53:38,409
know I describe it as ultimate fool that

2780
01:53:42,299 --> 01:53:40,780
that place that's beyond you know

2781
01:53:44,069 --> 01:53:42,309
borders that place on the map where

2782
01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:44,079
where monsters are and you're heading

2783
01:53:48,510 --> 01:53:46,570
into unchartered territory and I think

2784
01:53:50,729 --> 01:53:48,520
when we think of how surreal the UFO

2785
01:53:52,740 --> 01:53:50,739
witness story is it really is about

2786
01:53:55,080 --> 01:53:52,750
unchartered territory in it that theme

2787
01:53:57,270 --> 01:53:55,090
gets back out in the text benaiah stalks

2788
01:53:59,339 --> 01:53:57,280
about you know we need to head into a

2789
01:54:01,709 --> 01:53:59,349
land which is not yet to be trod we need

2790
01:54:03,240 --> 01:54:01,719
to head to tera obscura and Michael

2791
01:54:06,089 --> 01:54:03,250
Ellen talks about you know the land of

2792
01:54:08,700 --> 01:54:06,099
the owls and and I talked about Ultima

2793
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:08,710
Thule and I think that that we don't

2794
01:54:13,109 --> 01:54:10,690
really have a map for the territory of

2795
01:54:15,629 --> 01:54:13,119
the UFO it is an extremely complex

2796
01:54:18,299 --> 01:54:15,639
subject matter it's not a simplistic

2797
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:18,309
piece that we can just fit into a box um

2798
01:54:23,220 --> 01:54:21,010
so I think that means we need to bring a

2799
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:23,230
certain degree of complexity to it as

2800
01:54:26,459 --> 01:54:24,489
well and we should be prepared to head

2801
01:54:28,470 --> 01:54:26,469
into unchartered territory both in terms

2802
01:54:31,310 --> 01:54:28,480
of thinking and in acknowledging what

2803
01:54:35,669 --> 01:54:31,320
the true nature of the experience is

2804
01:54:37,469 --> 01:54:35,679
Ravi I I can only leave it

2805
01:54:41,580 --> 01:54:37,479
really with what Robert has so

2806
01:54:43,229 --> 01:54:41,590
eloquently expressed there you know that

2807
01:54:45,449 --> 01:54:43,239
yeah and I'm not gonna try and top boys

2808
01:54:47,669 --> 01:54:45,459
just he's just that that's it really the

2809
01:54:49,290 --> 01:54:47,679
you know we are that the book attempts

2810
01:54:52,709 --> 01:54:49,300
to I suppose that calls for that

2811
01:54:54,810 --> 01:54:52,719
uncharted territory but we recognize

2812
01:54:58,679 --> 01:54:54,820
that where the week that we can't

2813
01:55:01,080 --> 01:54:58,689
actually effectively approach it yeah

2814
01:55:05,009 --> 01:55:01,090
but we're at least trying and I think

2815
01:55:06,989 --> 01:55:05,019
it's important to try do you think we'll

2816
01:55:08,969 --> 01:55:06,999
ever get an answer or will be in the

2817
01:55:13,259 --> 01:55:08,979
second round of trying to find new

2818
01:55:15,629 --> 01:55:13,269
thoughts I this someone asked me this

2819
01:55:20,009 --> 01:55:15,639
recently will where we get an answer to

2820
01:55:21,810 --> 01:55:20,019
the UFO riddle I I think that I would

2821
01:55:25,310 --> 01:55:21,820
like to think that probably we will if

2822
01:55:27,390 --> 01:55:25,320
we survive long enough as a species

2823
01:55:29,669 --> 01:55:27,400
because I don't think that anything's I

2824
01:55:32,219 --> 01:55:29,679
think that most things will be within

2825
01:55:36,449 --> 01:55:32,229
our within our reach of understanding if

2826
01:55:38,189 --> 01:55:36,459
you know given enough time but but I

2827
01:55:39,779 --> 01:55:38,199
think we're so primitive we're so young

2828
01:55:42,390 --> 01:55:39,789
right now we're you know we'd like to

2829
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:42,400
think of ourselves as the pinnacle but

2830
01:55:47,370 --> 01:55:44,050
we you know we're so young and so

2831
01:55:49,259 --> 01:55:47,380
primitive Chris said we just basically

2832
01:55:52,709 --> 01:55:49,269
evolved ape which apes which is of

2833
01:55:55,319 --> 01:55:52,719
course exactly what we are and and so I

2834
01:55:58,589 --> 01:55:55,329
think we're good ways a way of truly

2835
01:56:00,689 --> 01:55:58,599
understanding what underlies UFOs and

2836
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:00,699
related phenomena are they forever

2837
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:03,010
beyond our reach probably not

2838
01:56:11,790 --> 01:56:06,570
are they beyond reach within my lifetime

2839
01:56:13,410 --> 01:56:11,800
probably so yeah I think that for myself

2840
01:56:15,359 --> 01:56:13,420
and I think about it that it is so

2841
01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:15,369
beyond the capacities of our biology I

2842
01:56:19,890 --> 01:56:17,650
doubt we'll ever come to a great

2843
01:56:22,259 --> 01:56:19,900
appreciation of what that external

2844
01:56:25,049 --> 01:56:22,269
stimulus actually is if there is one

2845
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:25,059
that's there but I do think that if we

2846
01:56:30,239 --> 01:56:27,610
take time to actually bring real science

2847
01:56:31,979 --> 01:56:30,249
to what we've got left which is the UFO

2848
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:31,989
witness that if there could be some

2849
01:56:38,160 --> 01:56:35,050
energies invested into who in fact are

2850
01:56:39,959 --> 01:56:38,170
the people that see what they see um and

2851
01:56:42,929 --> 01:56:39,969
if we could actually define a cohort

2852
01:56:46,080 --> 01:56:42,939
through like real legitimate you know

2853
01:56:48,629 --> 01:56:46,090
sociological study I would be fascinated

2854
01:56:49,290 --> 01:56:48,639
to to understand that that part of it

2855
01:56:51,240 --> 01:56:49,300
that is there

2856
01:56:52,859 --> 01:56:51,250
something about the the nature of the

2857
01:56:55,709 --> 01:56:52,869
individual or what's taking place in

2858
01:56:58,649 --> 01:56:55,719
their life that causes the experience to

2859
01:57:01,530 --> 01:56:58,659
to unfold or is it in fact an entirely

2860
01:57:04,649 --> 01:57:01,540
random stimulus piece that for whatever

2861
01:57:06,330 --> 01:57:04,659
reason people see sometimes and if

2862
01:57:09,060 --> 01:57:06,340
that's the case I think it'll always be

2863
01:57:11,120 --> 01:57:09,070
beyond our grasp as to to what it is

2864
01:57:13,979 --> 01:57:11,130
it's easy to fire science quite readily

2865
01:57:16,229 --> 01:57:13,989
all the time and it doesn't leave us any

2866
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:16,239
ability or capacity to use science to

2867
01:57:20,939 --> 01:57:17,530
measure it in any meaningful manner

2868
01:57:22,410 --> 01:57:20,949
except for after the fact so I think we

2869
01:57:23,879 --> 01:57:22,420
need to focus on the witness piece and

2870
01:57:26,310 --> 01:57:23,889
see what kind of traction we can get

2871
01:57:28,229 --> 01:57:26,320
from that I have fun questions here from

2872
01:57:30,629 --> 01:57:28,239
William strengthen from the forums that

2873
01:57:33,270 --> 01:57:30,639
I want to drop in our next segment ok

2874
01:57:36,180 --> 01:57:33,280
guys so we have Jean and Chris and

2875
01:57:41,100 --> 01:57:36,190
Robert and Robbie you're in the better

2876
01:57:41,110 --> 01:57:47,070
[Music]

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2895
01:58:51,790 --> 01:58:50,000
inventor of my pillow and like all of

2896
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you out there I have problems sleeping

2897
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2898
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all night long I would wake up with a

2899
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sore neck maybe a headache or feel like

2900
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I needed a nap even though I slept eight

2901
01:59:02,950 --> 01:59:01,370
hours when I invented my pillow I wanted

2902
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it to where you can move the patented

2903
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fill to give you the exact support you

2904
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need as an individual regardless of

2905
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sleep position my pillow will get you

2906
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2907
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2908
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how much time we spend in bed it's about

2909
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how much of that quality sleep we get I

2910
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2911
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exploring this new book UFO is

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refreshing the debate the editor Robby

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Graham is here one of the authors Robert

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Plant's better let me tell you first of

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all right so I mentioned before that we

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wanted to have red pill junky join us on

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this show and unfortunately his work

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schedule intervened but he is available

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for a recording session for after the

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power cast so if all things work out on

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the accompanying episode of after the

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power cast you will hear from red pill

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junky

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strothman

3010
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okay there's a bunch okay first one for

3011
02:03:32,230 --> 02:03:29,480
Robbie again this comes from Williams

3012
02:03:33,610 --> 02:03:32,240
craftsman he pretty much shows up when

3013
02:03:36,550 --> 02:03:33,620
we have interesting guests on the show

3014
02:03:38,560 --> 02:03:36,560
and he's one of the few foreign posters

3015
02:03:41,110 --> 02:03:38,570
that has more likes than he has posed

3016
02:03:43,540 --> 02:03:41,120
and he's wondering Robby how did you

3017
02:03:46,240 --> 02:03:43,550
come up with the idea to ask for essays

3018
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:46,250
from this wide variety of contributors I

3019
02:03:51,160 --> 02:03:49,610
think it did arise out of mine and well

3020
02:03:54,340 --> 02:03:51,170
initially mine and then I suppose the

3021
02:03:56,380 --> 02:03:54,350
collective contributors frustration that

3022
02:03:58,540 --> 02:03:56,390
what people call ufology is you know

3023
02:04:00,010 --> 02:03:58,550
frankly broken and and was never really

3024
02:04:02,260 --> 02:04:00,020
fully assembled in the first

3025
02:04:05,320 --> 02:04:02,270
place and I wanted to put a book

3026
02:04:08,080 --> 02:04:05,330
together that would that would lay bare

3027
02:04:10,780 --> 02:04:08,090
the problems that have long faced the

3028
02:04:13,690 --> 02:04:10,790
euro study field and then crucially seek

3029
02:04:15,490 --> 02:04:13,700
to provide remedies and solutions so

3030
02:04:19,930 --> 02:04:15,500
that we can move forward on this clearer

3031
02:04:22,180 --> 02:04:19,940
path but the book I suppose it was also

3032
02:04:24,520 --> 02:04:22,190
it was also put together at the

3033
02:04:26,500 --> 02:04:24,530
suggestion or at least a volume was put

3034
02:04:28,540 --> 02:04:26,510
together at the suggestion of my editor

3035
02:04:30,730 --> 02:04:28,550
I'd written silver-screen sources a

3036
02:04:32,980 --> 02:04:30,740
couple of years ago and my editor at

3037
02:04:35,530 --> 02:04:32,990
white crow books and my publisher rather

3038
02:04:40,030 --> 02:04:35,540
at white crow books suggested that I

3039
02:04:41,110 --> 02:04:40,040
might do a an edited volume on UFOs but

3040
02:04:42,490 --> 02:04:41,120
you know he sort of said well what would

3041
02:04:44,200 --> 02:04:42,500
your angle be and I thought well you

3042
02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:44,210
know I've been kicking around this idea

3043
02:04:49,810 --> 02:04:46,850
of maybe doing something that would be

3044
02:04:51,730 --> 02:04:49,820
critical and present alternative

3045
02:04:55,830 --> 02:04:51,740
perspectives and and then so I just

3046
02:04:58,110 --> 02:04:55,840
started to put together a list of who

3047
02:05:00,100 --> 02:04:58,120
struck me as being particularly

3048
02:05:02,650 --> 02:05:00,110
forward-thinking progressive

3049
02:05:04,990 --> 02:05:02,660
iconoclastic in this field and at the

3050
02:05:07,900 --> 02:05:05,000
edges of the field and I started to

3051
02:05:09,820 --> 02:05:07,910
approach people with a brief with a with

3052
02:05:11,620 --> 02:05:09,830
an outline for an idea of what would

3053
02:05:13,180 --> 02:05:11,630
become UFOs reframing the debate I think

3054
02:05:15,970 --> 02:05:13,190
I had the title from the very beginning

3055
02:05:18,340 --> 02:05:15,980
and I approached you know a good number

3056
02:05:19,810 --> 02:05:18,350
of people and and almost all of them

3057
02:05:21,940 --> 02:05:19,820
jumped on board with it very

3058
02:05:24,100 --> 02:05:21,950
enthusiastically so and it all came

3059
02:05:25,630 --> 02:05:24,110
together very very quickly I say quickly

3060
02:05:30,130 --> 02:05:25,640
it took a year but that's quite quick

3061
02:05:31,660 --> 02:05:30,140
and and so yeah relatively smooth and

3062
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:31,670
everyone was incredibly enthusiastic

3063
02:05:35,560 --> 02:05:33,890
about it and I'd really blown away by

3064
02:05:37,900 --> 02:05:35,570
how much of themselves everyone's throat

3065
02:05:39,280 --> 02:05:37,910
thrown into this well you mention almost

3066
02:05:43,110 --> 02:05:39,290
everybody took you up on it

3067
02:05:45,330 --> 02:05:43,120
another question from mr. strausmann is

3068
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:45,340
who turned you down

3069
02:05:52,780 --> 02:05:49,370
and you can name names it's okay I would

3070
02:05:55,240 --> 02:05:52,790
rather not because ended because yes it

3071
02:05:57,610 --> 02:05:55,250
was a bunch of hands a big net a bit a

3072
02:05:59,830 --> 02:05:57,620
couple of very very very big names who

3073
02:06:02,110 --> 02:05:59,840
have colleagues of mine who have huge

3074
02:06:03,730 --> 02:06:02,120
respect for who turned me down simply

3075
02:06:05,620 --> 02:06:03,740
one of them turned me down because he

3076
02:06:07,870 --> 02:06:05,630
was simply just too busy is it I can

3077
02:06:10,180 --> 02:06:07,880
either full-time academic and this

3078
02:06:12,610 --> 02:06:10,190
schedule wouldn't allow for it he just

3079
02:06:13,130 --> 02:06:12,620
he a lot of people are demanding a lot

3080
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:13,140
of things for

3081
02:06:16,670 --> 02:06:15,360
all the time and he just sort of was

3082
02:06:18,620 --> 02:06:16,680
very honest with me and said I think

3083
02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:18,630
this sounds like a great project he said

3084
02:06:22,370 --> 02:06:19,650
he said I think it's going to be a

3085
02:06:24,290 --> 02:06:22,380
classic but I just don't have the time

3086
02:06:26,120 --> 02:06:24,300
to do it at the moment and I just have

3087
02:06:26,570 --> 02:06:26,130
to kind of draw a line and say I can't

3088
02:06:28,550 --> 02:06:26,580
do it

3089
02:06:32,030 --> 02:06:28,560
so I respected that I thank him anyway

3090
02:06:34,970 --> 02:06:32,040
and the other one is a guy who is a very

3091
02:06:37,160 --> 02:06:34,980
big name and he he declined respectfully

3092
02:06:43,160 --> 02:06:37,170
and again very enthusiastic about about

3093
02:06:44,840 --> 02:06:43,170
the project but he he is he said he was

3094
02:06:48,260 --> 02:06:44,850
taking a step a huge step away from the

3095
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:48,270
field and didn't didn't really want to

3096
02:06:52,910 --> 02:06:51,690
be I think out there at this point with

3097
02:06:55,370 --> 02:06:52,920
this kind of project I think he just

3098
02:06:55,910 --> 02:06:55,380
wanted to sort of go go into a stealth

3099
02:07:02,540 --> 02:06:55,920
mode

3100
02:07:04,100 --> 02:07:02,550
shall we say the mind wanders I I can

3101
02:07:06,650 --> 02:07:04,110
think of a number of people that would

3102
02:07:11,300 --> 02:07:06,660
fit into that particular description but

3103
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:11,310
did you have in your mind a certain

3104
02:07:18,860 --> 02:07:13,530
variety of people or a certain variety

3105
02:07:21,470 --> 02:07:18,870
of opinion that you wanted to sort of

3106
02:07:23,780 --> 02:07:21,480
have on for well-rounded focus for the

3107
02:07:25,670 --> 02:07:23,790
book or did you just kind of go with

3108
02:07:27,590 --> 02:07:25,680
your intuition and say well this one

3109
02:07:30,830 --> 02:07:27,600
this one this one this one and just

3110
02:07:32,480 --> 02:07:30,840
allow them to come up with with it in

3111
02:07:37,070 --> 02:07:32,490
other words how much did you steer the

3112
02:07:40,130 --> 02:07:37,080
project oh well I mean yeah I stated

3113
02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:40,140
from the beginning it's it's it's oh

3114
02:07:44,810 --> 02:07:42,810
it's very much you know it's it's I've

3115
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:44,820
worked on this every day literally every

3116
02:07:53,390 --> 02:07:49,770
day for the past year and so it's been

3117
02:07:56,360 --> 02:07:53,400
it's been hugely time-consuming and in

3118
02:07:58,340 --> 02:07:56,370
all of lights but but it's been less

3119
02:07:59,960 --> 02:07:58,350
stressful I would say than than the last

3120
02:08:02,390 --> 02:07:59,970
book I wrote because the last one was

3121
02:08:04,100 --> 02:08:02,400
you know I wrote all the content whereas

3122
02:08:05,810 --> 02:08:04,110
this is this is written this is written

3123
02:08:07,040 --> 02:08:05,820
by other people but this is still a huge

3124
02:08:08,900 --> 02:08:07,050
challenge in the sense that you're still

3125
02:08:13,460 --> 02:08:08,910
having to edit everyone's work you're

3126
02:08:16,220 --> 02:08:13,470
still having to you're still having some

3127
02:08:20,870 --> 02:08:16,230
people submitted stuff which ultimately

3128
02:08:23,480 --> 02:08:20,880
I had to decline for inclusion in the

3129
02:08:24,770 --> 02:08:23,490
book because it wasn't suitable and so

3130
02:08:26,720 --> 02:08:24,780
you have to make those decisions as well

3131
02:08:32,030 --> 02:08:26,730
and it's just constant correspond

3132
02:08:33,530 --> 02:08:32,040
every single day with with with up to 20

3133
02:08:35,870 --> 02:08:33,540
people and ultimately down to sort of

3134
02:08:37,700 --> 02:08:35,880
1415 people who contributed to the book

3135
02:08:40,580 --> 02:08:37,710
for it for a year so it's just been

3136
02:08:42,410 --> 02:08:40,590
hugely time-consuming deciding on how to

3137
02:08:45,950 --> 02:08:42,420
structure the book editing the

3138
02:08:48,530 --> 02:08:45,960
individual essays you know doing all of

3139
02:08:52,430 --> 02:08:48,540
the at all of the endnotes everything

3140
02:08:54,710 --> 02:08:52,440
it's been a yeah it's been a it's a big

3141
02:08:55,490 --> 02:08:54,720
prop project project yeah it's gonna be

3142
02:08:58,880 --> 02:08:55,500
process

3143
02:09:00,680 --> 02:08:58,890
but but yeah and then it's of how to

3144
02:09:02,180 --> 02:09:00,690
frame the whole thing and what I want to

3145
02:09:04,820 --> 02:09:02,190
achieve with it but you know Greg Bishop

3146
02:09:06,650 --> 02:09:04,830
played a huge role as well as basically

3147
02:09:08,150 --> 02:09:06,660
a sub editor on you know Greg was wanna

3148
02:09:10,940 --> 02:09:08,160
was one of the people who I had from

3149
02:09:13,430 --> 02:09:10,950
that--from towards the beginning and I

3150
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:13,440
sort of bounced a lot of ideas off Greg

3151
02:09:19,700 --> 02:09:16,050
from the outset and Greg would make

3152
02:09:21,950 --> 02:09:19,710
recommendations and about certain

3153
02:09:23,270 --> 02:09:21,960
contributors as well you'll ask Greg you

3154
02:09:25,190 --> 02:09:23,280
know who would you recommend and things

3155
02:09:26,710 --> 02:09:25,200
like that and I had most of the

3156
02:09:29,420 --> 02:09:26,720
contributors in mind from the outset

3157
02:09:31,340 --> 02:09:29,430
anyone who are anyone whose work I would

3158
02:09:33,350 --> 02:09:31,350
see particularly who were even

3159
02:09:35,630 --> 02:09:33,360
commenting online in forums and things

3160
02:09:40,570 --> 02:09:35,640
like that who were expressing ideas that

3161
02:09:44,270 --> 02:09:40,580
were they were shall we say different

3162
02:09:45,979 --> 02:09:44,280
and articulate then I would have them in

3163
02:09:47,540 --> 02:09:45,989
mind and then I would sort of research

3164
02:09:49,460 --> 02:09:47,550
people and think well do I know enough

3165
02:09:50,660 --> 02:09:49,470
about you and because you also have to

3166
02:09:52,340 --> 02:09:50,670
make the decisions on whether you can

3167
02:09:55,010 --> 02:09:52,350
work with people as well it's not just

3168
02:09:57,590 --> 02:09:55,020
it's not just about whether their work

3169
02:09:59,720 --> 02:09:57,600
is great about whether or not you can

3170
02:10:02,840 --> 02:09:59,730
actually work with them and whether they

3171
02:10:04,490 --> 02:10:02,850
are suitable to talk to you know to

3172
02:10:08,450 --> 02:10:04,500
devote a year of their lives to

3173
02:10:10,900 --> 02:10:08,460
something like this on and off you know

3174
02:10:14,540 --> 02:10:10,910
because there's also the element of ego

3175
02:10:17,870 --> 02:10:14,550
involved and and I'm delighted to say

3176
02:10:19,880 --> 02:10:17,880
that that I haven't had to encounter

3177
02:10:22,610 --> 02:10:19,890
that the you know which is quite an

3178
02:10:25,310 --> 02:10:22,620
achievement with fourteen people we got

3179
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:25,320
more to come with Robbie gray and of

3180
02:10:39,260 --> 02:10:28,010
course Robert Branstetter gene and Chris

3181
02:10:43,160 --> 02:10:41,760
thank you for listening to GCN

3182
02:10:46,900 --> 02:10:43,170
[Music]

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02:10:49,640 --> 02:10:46,910
be sure to visit GCN live.com today

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3202
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Minuteman rocket stove is a biomass

3203
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burning cooking stove that only requires

3204
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small quantities of sticks and twigs for

3205
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fuel the Minuteman stove is easy to use

3206
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smokeless portable powerful and

3207
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3208
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3209
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3210
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3211
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3214
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3215
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3216
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3217
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3218
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3219
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dispose of what was meant to be a

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3290
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3291
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3292
02:14:53,390 --> 02:14:51,470
hello this is John

3293
02:14:55,970 --> 02:14:53,400
Burl's one of the witnesses to the

3294
02:14:58,220 --> 02:14:55,980
Rendlesham UFO incident you're listening

3295
02:15:06,130 --> 02:14:58,230
to the para cast the gold standard of a

3296
02:15:11,710 --> 02:15:10,480
oh he's getting getting more excitable

3297
02:15:14,350 --> 02:15:11,720
by the second there

3298
02:15:16,750 --> 02:15:14,360
sounded like Nick a little bit that we

3299
02:15:18,760 --> 02:15:16,760
have to add the accent that's all Chris

3300
02:15:22,450 --> 02:15:18,770
you've got what he has like six seven

3301
02:15:23,980 --> 02:15:22,460
more questions yeah those were I think

3302
02:15:26,980 --> 02:15:23,990
three questions that we asked for Robbie

3303
02:15:31,150 --> 02:15:26,990
now here's here's a couple for for you

3304
02:15:33,730 --> 02:15:31,160
Robert he's wondering if unresolved

3305
02:15:36,250 --> 02:15:33,740
human trauma could be the main source

3306
02:15:39,880 --> 02:15:36,260
for the UFO experience based on your

3307
02:15:43,150 --> 02:15:39,890
work extensive work with with trauma

3308
02:15:45,820 --> 02:15:43,160
victims and and in in the realm of the

3309
02:15:47,350 --> 02:15:45,830
traumatic experience you know it's a

3310
02:15:50,050 --> 02:15:47,360
theme that repeats like a number of

3311
02:15:52,330 --> 02:15:50,060
different essayists bring that concept

3312
02:15:54,700 --> 02:15:52,340
forward Rakowski does that Greg Bishop

3313
02:15:56,560 --> 02:15:54,710
does that I do that many people talk

3314
02:15:59,380 --> 02:15:56,570
about the nature of trauma McClellan

3315
02:16:01,420 --> 02:15:59,390
calls being an abductee is the trauma of

3316
02:16:03,640 --> 02:16:01,430
enlightenment which I've got you know my

3317
02:16:04,960 --> 02:16:03,650
own kind of thoughts about that concept

3318
02:16:07,450 --> 02:16:04,970
but I don't want to see it's the main

3319
02:16:10,090 --> 02:16:07,460
source but it there does seem to be some

3320
02:16:12,460 --> 02:16:10,100
correlation between those who experience

3321
02:16:14,080 --> 02:16:12,470
very unique phenomena especially these

3322
02:16:15,420 --> 02:16:14,090
close encounter cases and I cite you

3323
02:16:18,970 --> 02:16:15,430
know that the Dales fire Portage County

3324
02:16:21,040 --> 02:16:18,980
Ohio cases like a significant example of

3325
02:16:23,800 --> 02:16:21,050
an individual who was perhaps

3326
02:16:26,290 --> 02:16:23,810
deconstructing prior to the event and

3327
02:16:29,200 --> 02:16:26,300
that well the aftermath of the event

3328
02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:29,210
seems to bring a significant degree of

3329
02:16:33,010 --> 02:16:30,770
trauma to individuals who identify

3330
02:16:35,590 --> 02:16:33,020
within the territory of close encounter

3331
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:35,600
cases or to find themselves as abductees

3332
02:16:40,570 --> 02:16:38,690
I would not say traumas the source but

3333
02:16:42,580 --> 02:16:40,580
it's the aftermath without question and

3334
02:16:44,470 --> 02:16:42,590
I do think there is a question that's

3335
02:16:46,720 --> 02:16:44,480
until we can actually define a good

3336
02:16:48,040 --> 02:16:46,730
cohort but it would not surprise me to

3337
02:16:50,020 --> 02:16:48,050
know that a great number of people who

3338
02:16:52,419 --> 02:16:50,030
experience these close encounter cases

3339
02:16:54,190 --> 02:16:52,429
are individuals who are also having

3340
02:16:56,530 --> 02:16:54,200
other deconstructions taking place in

3341
02:16:58,810 --> 02:16:56,540
their own life be they emotional trauma

3342
02:17:01,870 --> 02:16:58,820
family trauma abuse etc and Rakowski

3343
02:17:03,430 --> 02:17:01,880
hits upon that in his abduction at text

3344
02:17:05,680 --> 02:17:03,440
as well and I think it's an important

3345
02:17:07,419 --> 02:17:05,690
consideration that mental health does

3346
02:17:10,600 --> 02:17:07,429
play perhaps a role in some of these

3347
02:17:14,230 --> 02:17:10,610
experiences well having said that and I

3348
02:17:16,510 --> 02:17:14,240
totally agree that trauma is you know

3349
02:17:19,150 --> 02:17:16,520
one of the main sort of building blocks

3350
02:17:19,599 --> 02:17:19,160
emotionally for dealing with these types

3351
02:17:24,669 --> 02:17:19,609
of

3352
02:17:26,739 --> 02:17:24,679
experience that is accepted by the

3353
02:17:28,839 --> 02:17:26,749
experiencer as being totally positive

3354
02:17:29,709 --> 02:17:28,849
it's like they were given the mysteries

3355
02:17:31,809 --> 02:17:29,719
of the universe

3356
02:17:34,029 --> 02:17:31,819
they were told the future of humanity

3357
02:17:36,250 --> 02:17:34,039
all those new-age sort of benevolent

3358
02:17:38,669 --> 02:17:36,260
space brother-type images come to mind

3359
02:17:41,559 --> 02:17:38,679
that I'm trying to describe this person

3360
02:17:43,629 --> 02:17:41,569
inherently though because the experience

3361
02:17:46,179 --> 02:17:43,639
is so out of the norm wouldn't this on

3362
02:17:48,580 --> 02:17:46,189
some level be a traumatic experience and

3363
02:17:51,639 --> 02:17:48,590
how does that play into the positive

3364
02:17:53,619 --> 02:17:51,649
space brother scenario in terms of the

3365
02:17:55,869 --> 02:17:53,629
the individual actually experiencing

3366
02:17:57,549 --> 02:17:55,879
deep trauma am I on the right track

3367
02:17:59,409 --> 02:17:57,559
there yeah I think you're on it on a

3368
02:18:01,299 --> 02:17:59,419
good track there and I think it depends

3369
02:18:03,129 --> 02:18:01,309
also you know what what's the the viewer

3370
02:18:05,139 --> 02:18:03,139
the witness bringing to the dance at

3371
02:18:07,419 --> 02:18:05,149
that time it foots on the front end of

3372
02:18:09,309 --> 02:18:07,429
their youthful aaja Khalif system is one

3373
02:18:11,409 --> 02:18:09,319
that is just their life where they are

3374
02:18:12,879 --> 02:18:11,419
in their life is that's for sure and I

3375
02:18:14,469 --> 02:18:12,889
think you know Rakowski documents that

3376
02:18:16,269 --> 02:18:14,479
in a number of his texts where he goes

3377
02:18:18,459 --> 02:18:16,279
to visit witnesses have had profound

3378
02:18:19,929 --> 02:18:18,469
abductee and then claiming contact he

3379
02:18:21,339 --> 02:18:19,939
experiences and then he starts taking a

3380
02:18:22,899 --> 02:18:21,349
look around what are the books in the

3381
02:18:24,009 --> 02:18:22,909
room and what do you know this has been

3382
02:18:25,569 --> 02:18:24,019
the narrative these people have been

3383
02:18:27,939 --> 02:18:25,579
living for a very long time I don't

3384
02:18:29,439 --> 02:18:27,949
think we can deny that part that but

3385
02:18:32,259 --> 02:18:29,449
also you know we know whenever we've had

3386
02:18:34,599 --> 02:18:32,269
a very intense experience usually it

3387
02:18:36,879 --> 02:18:34,609
goes you know one of three ways either

3388
02:18:39,069 --> 02:18:36,889
you're totally traumatized by it or it

3389
02:18:40,689 --> 02:18:39,079
becomes a point of ecstasy or it doesn't

3390
02:18:41,679 --> 02:18:40,699
really move your integrate you or you

3391
02:18:43,719 --> 02:18:41,689
don't know what to do with it and so you

3392
02:18:46,089 --> 02:18:43,729
just file a lot away under let's forget

3393
02:18:48,729 --> 02:18:46,099
about that and it doesn't play a role in

3394
02:18:50,349 --> 02:18:48,739
your life anymore so I suspect it has a

3395
02:18:52,419 --> 02:18:50,359
lot to do with who that individual is at

3396
02:18:54,369 --> 02:18:52,429
the time of the experience that defines

3397
02:18:57,040 --> 02:18:54,379
how ecstatic or traumatic or forgotten

3398
02:19:00,159 --> 02:18:57,050
it might be you know in and again that

3399
02:19:01,449 --> 02:19:00,169
brings up another tried and true kind of

3400
02:19:03,250 --> 02:19:01,459
theme that we've had here at the pair

3401
02:19:05,409 --> 02:19:03,260
cast for a long time when it comes to

3402
02:19:08,080 --> 02:19:05,419
MUFON an actual on-site investigation

3403
02:19:10,449 --> 02:19:08,090
the types of subject a matter that we're

3404
02:19:13,179 --> 02:19:10,459
talking about is not addressed in any

3405
02:19:16,119 --> 02:19:13,189
way shape or form and any sort of you

3406
02:19:18,250 --> 02:19:16,129
know standardized MUFON model for an

3407
02:19:20,769 --> 02:19:18,260
investigation and as you know

3408
02:19:22,299 --> 02:19:20,779
ascertaining facts I mean I think it's

3409
02:19:24,909 --> 02:19:22,309
so important and you just brought up a

3410
02:19:28,299 --> 02:19:24,919
really important fact walking through an

3411
02:19:30,909 --> 02:19:28,309
experiencer or a witness's living room

3412
02:19:32,500 --> 02:19:30,919
and just happening to look at the what

3413
02:19:34,150 --> 02:19:32,510
kind of magazines they have

3414
02:19:37,179 --> 02:19:34,160
what kind of books they have in the

3415
02:19:41,110 --> 02:19:37,189
bookshelf this really is important

3416
02:19:44,410 --> 02:19:41,120
because each experiencer is a complete

3417
02:19:47,169 --> 02:19:44,420
sort of universe if you will in in it

3418
02:19:50,620 --> 02:19:47,179
has its own sort of front-loading main

3419
02:19:52,630 --> 02:19:50,630
autonomy and in that I think is going to

3420
02:19:54,730 --> 02:19:52,640
color any sort of unusual experience

3421
02:19:57,540 --> 02:19:54,740
that they have again we're getting back

3422
02:19:59,620 --> 02:19:57,550
into the whole realm of how do we

3423
02:20:01,780 --> 02:19:59,630
ascertain the quality of consciousness

3424
02:20:04,179 --> 02:20:01,790
and I think that's a real important

3425
02:20:06,550 --> 02:20:04,189
aspect to all this and how people

3426
02:20:08,349 --> 02:20:06,560
actually perceive their reality anybody

3427
02:20:09,639 --> 02:20:08,359
want to comment you know on some level I

3428
02:20:10,929 --> 02:20:09,649
think at the end of the day all we've

3429
02:20:12,849 --> 02:20:10,939
got is a collection of really unique

3430
02:20:15,460 --> 02:20:12,859
stories some of them very surreal and

3431
02:20:17,769 --> 02:20:15,470
absurdist in nature I wonder if the most

3432
02:20:19,780 --> 02:20:17,779
we can actually learn about the

3433
02:20:21,849 --> 02:20:19,790
experience is to talk to the witness

3434
02:20:23,050 --> 02:20:21,859
about who they were beforehand what was

3435
02:20:25,120 --> 02:20:23,060
happening in their life you know where

3436
02:20:27,190 --> 02:20:25,130
things going wrong things deconstructing

3437
02:20:29,559 --> 02:20:27,200
or was everything fine and normal and

3438
02:20:31,650 --> 02:20:29,569
and to spend more time with them after

3439
02:20:34,389 --> 02:20:31,660
the event and check in with them

3440
02:20:35,950 --> 02:20:34,399
continuously and really engages this

3441
02:20:37,570 --> 02:20:35,960
concept of witness studies that if we

3442
02:20:39,550 --> 02:20:37,580
think that there's something that is a

3443
02:20:41,610 --> 02:20:39,560
true external stimulus taking place then

3444
02:20:43,690 --> 02:20:41,620
wanting to study its impact on

3445
02:20:45,880 --> 02:20:43,700
individuals and trying to look for

3446
02:20:47,950 --> 02:20:45,890
patterns within that pool is at least

3447
02:20:49,420 --> 02:20:47,960
something that's more solid to work with

3448
02:20:50,800 --> 02:20:49,430
and I think the other part that when you

3449
02:20:52,809 --> 02:20:50,810
think about you know the very act of

3450
02:20:54,519 --> 02:20:52,819
seeing something absolutely surreal and

3451
02:20:55,929 --> 02:20:54,529
bizarre we have no idea what the nature

3452
02:20:57,790 --> 02:20:55,939
of brain chemistry is taking place

3453
02:20:59,740 --> 02:20:57,800
inside an individual's mind by leading

3454
02:21:01,870 --> 02:20:59,750
up to an extraordinary event or how the

3455
02:21:04,090 --> 02:21:01,880
amygdala might be firing and causing

3456
02:21:06,670 --> 02:21:04,100
different types of audio or visual

3457
02:21:08,260 --> 02:21:06,680
hallucinations these are common elements

3458
02:21:10,540 --> 02:21:08,270
within the human brain space and that's

3459
02:21:12,550 --> 02:21:10,550
where it becomes an extremely complex

3460
02:21:13,780 --> 02:21:12,560
event on one hand you'd like to take the

3461
02:21:15,519 --> 02:21:13,790
witness for granted and just say oh

3462
02:21:17,740 --> 02:21:15,529
that's what they saw but then on the

3463
02:21:19,660 --> 02:21:17,750
other you might want to recognize that

3464
02:21:21,639 --> 02:21:19,670
every witnesses event is their own

3465
02:21:23,260 --> 02:21:21,649
virtual reality experience that's taking

3466
02:21:24,580 --> 02:21:23,270
place inside their mind and the amount

3467
02:21:26,559 --> 02:21:24,590
of things that you know cultural

3468
02:21:29,469 --> 02:21:26,569
sociological psychological that inform

3469
02:21:31,630 --> 02:21:29,479
our everyday virtual reality that plays

3470
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:31,640
out is enormous and when you throw

3471
02:21:35,260 --> 02:21:33,290
something like the UFO experience inside

3472
02:21:39,010 --> 02:21:35,270
of that that's a lot to tease apart I

3473
02:21:40,990 --> 02:21:39,020
think yeah what do you think Robby I

3474
02:21:42,010 --> 02:21:41,000
mean where do you come down you're gonna

3475
02:21:44,200 --> 02:21:42,020
have to repeat the question

3476
02:21:45,410 --> 02:21:44,210
question well basically what we're

3477
02:21:47,870 --> 02:21:45,420
talking about is

3478
02:21:50,600 --> 02:21:47,880
how to differentiate between spin and

3479
02:21:52,520 --> 02:21:50,610
the experience basically everybody is

3480
02:21:55,040 --> 02:21:52,530
coming to the table the only contact

3481
02:21:57,080 --> 02:21:55,050
every experience or every you know

3482
02:22:00,080 --> 02:21:57,090
sighting witness is coming to the table

3483
02:22:02,719 --> 02:22:00,090
with a complete unique set of front

3484
02:22:06,170 --> 02:22:02,729
loaded baggage and it's the interpretive

3485
02:22:08,270 --> 02:22:06,180
nature of that baggage through the

3486
02:22:10,760 --> 02:22:08,280
wonderful manifestation of a conscious

3487
02:22:13,790 --> 02:22:10,770
experience that's where we then get

3488
02:22:15,980 --> 02:22:13,800
people like myself or MUFON

3489
02:22:18,230 --> 02:22:15,990
investigators or other investigators who

3490
02:22:20,540 --> 02:22:18,240
go out and want to try to document what

3491
02:22:22,880 --> 02:22:20,550
it was that happened every one of the

3492
02:22:26,260 --> 02:22:22,890
witnesses is completely different from

3493
02:22:28,730 --> 02:22:26,270
the next one they all have certain basic

3494
02:22:30,380 --> 02:22:28,740
similarities in terms of a basic

3495
02:22:33,020 --> 02:22:30,390
cultural cognition that sort of thing

3496
02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:33,030
but everybody has their own spin on

3497
02:22:38,740 --> 02:22:35,850
stuff and so it's it's like trying to

3498
02:22:42,230 --> 02:22:38,750
ascertain facts in a Hall of Mirrors

3499
02:22:45,140 --> 02:22:42,240
looking through a kaleidoscope a lack of

3500
02:22:47,390 --> 02:22:45,150
a better interpretation or definition of

3501
02:22:50,540 --> 02:22:47,400
the process I mean that's that's what it

3502
02:22:54,050 --> 02:22:50,550
seems like sometimes to me looking at

3503
02:22:56,450 --> 02:22:54,060
the actual individual experience or you

3504
02:22:59,000 --> 02:22:56,460
know that witness that person that has

3505
02:23:01,730 --> 02:22:59,010
the experience you have to really get to

3506
02:23:03,950 --> 02:23:01,740
know that person and really understand

3507
02:23:07,070 --> 02:23:03,960
their baggage their front-loading and

3508
02:23:09,469 --> 02:23:07,080
all that stuff to even hope to begin to

3509
02:23:12,350 --> 02:23:09,479
come to some sort of you know possible

3510
02:23:14,420 --> 02:23:12,360
definitive conclusions upon which to

3511
02:23:16,490 --> 02:23:14,430
hang your hat you know in terms of what

3512
02:23:18,310 --> 02:23:16,500
they saw what they experienced it's

3513
02:23:21,469 --> 02:23:18,320
almost like you have to do a complete

3514
02:23:24,110 --> 02:23:21,479
individual breakdown of personality

3515
02:23:28,370 --> 02:23:24,120
character you know wants wishes desires

3516
02:23:32,120 --> 02:23:28,380
beliefs it's really a lot more

3517
02:23:35,450 --> 02:23:32,130
complicated then you know your standard

3518
02:23:37,310 --> 02:23:35,460
MUFON questionnaire well my response

3519
02:23:38,750 --> 02:23:37,320
would be the statement that you've just

3520
02:23:40,700 --> 02:23:38,760
given basic needs

3521
02:23:42,230 --> 02:23:40,710
you know I completely agree I completely

3522
02:23:45,350 --> 02:23:42,240
agree with what you just said with

3523
02:23:48,230 --> 02:23:45,360
Robert what Robert just said the the but

3524
02:23:53,060 --> 02:23:48,240
they I think is incredibly important to

3525
02:23:55,880 --> 02:23:53,070
to try and really study an individual

3526
02:23:57,469 --> 02:23:55,890
experience or an individual witness

3527
02:24:00,110 --> 02:23:57,479
I mean I think here we probably be

3528
02:24:02,899 --> 02:24:00,120
talking it'd be more valuable to study

3529
02:24:05,210 --> 02:24:02,909
close-up experiences of people who who

3530
02:24:07,880 --> 02:24:05,220
you might consider an experience or an

3531
02:24:10,519 --> 02:24:07,890
abductee because I think someone in the

3532
02:24:12,590 --> 02:24:10,529
book is it it may be like it may be Greg

3533
02:24:16,939 --> 02:24:12,600
or Robert who make a differentiation

3534
02:24:18,920 --> 02:24:16,949
between you know the the close-up

3535
02:24:23,210 --> 02:24:18,930
experience and you know in a typical

3536
02:24:25,700 --> 02:24:23,220
kind of not a you know a nocturnal light

3537
02:24:27,710 --> 02:24:25,710
experience like this guy right now got

3538
02:24:30,349 --> 02:24:27,720
one more second with Robbie and Robert

3539
02:24:43,300 --> 02:24:30,359
and Sheen and Chris you're in the para

3540
02:24:47,710 --> 02:24:43,310
cast thank you for listening to GCN

3541
02:24:49,929 --> 02:24:47,720
be sure to visit GCN live.com today we

3542
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3544
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3545
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3546
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3548
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3549
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3550
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3551
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women we have a para cast aluminum water

3552
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3553
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3556
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3557
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3558
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them special multiple sizes and colors

3559
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3560
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3561
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sorts of sizes like small up to X large

3562
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lot good stuff that's the swag from the

3563
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para cast to go to store dot ^ cast calm

3564
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stop by and take a shopping tour my

3565
02:25:52,389 --> 02:25:49,790
husband says you are what you eat not

3566
02:25:54,429 --> 02:25:52,399
true dear I did my research actually you

3567
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are what you can absorb so I didn't feel

3568
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the vitamins and supplements I was

3569
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taking were effective I didn't feel any

3570
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different then I switched to prota bite

3571
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a liquid multivitamin mineral and

3572
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phytonutrient complex and Wow

3573
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3574
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3575
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3577
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3578
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3579
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3580
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use some I store some awesome no

3581
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refrigeration needed with a 10 year

3582
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3583
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3584
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3586
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3587
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3589
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3590
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3591
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3592
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3596
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3597
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3599
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3600
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3601
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3602
02:27:26,820 --> 02:27:24,490
meals away from chaos those times may be

3603
02:27:28,350 --> 02:27:26,830
near think about it our country faces

3604
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multiple terrorist threats and

3605
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aggressions from Russia and North Korea

3606
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social unrest and violent marches yet

3607
02:27:36,330 --> 02:27:34,240
again may lead to looting of stores and

3608
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city shutdowns and a crumbling

3609
02:27:39,930 --> 02:27:37,930
infrastructure leaves our power grid

3610
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vulnerable to long term outages from a

3611
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single cyberattack when the chaos from

3612
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any one of these threats arises the

3613
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government knows it can't provide during

3614
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3615
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why you need your own plan for

3616
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3635
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[Music]

3640
02:28:58,020 --> 02:28:56,161
this is Micah Hanks to the graylien

3641
02:29:00,091 --> 02:28:58,030
report and you're listening to the para

3642
02:29:08,650 --> 02:29:00,101
cast the gold standard of paranormal

3643
02:29:14,930 --> 02:29:12,350
so the connectivity issues of Skype

3644
02:29:18,050 --> 02:29:14,940
haven't been so bad Chris got knocked

3645
02:29:20,780 --> 02:29:18,060
off once but it wasn't somebody gunning

3646
02:29:23,840 --> 02:29:20,790
after him it was the powers that be at

3647
02:29:25,220 --> 02:29:23,850
Microsoft no I'm just I'm so tired of it

3648
02:29:28,700 --> 02:29:25,230
you know as soon as I get I start

3649
02:29:31,460 --> 02:29:28,710
rolling boom I'm off oh well you know

3650
02:29:32,810 --> 02:29:31,470
it's a girl you know we make in the in

3651
02:29:35,150 --> 02:29:32,820
the book you make the distinction

3652
02:29:37,280 --> 02:29:35,160
between these two different types of UFO

3653
02:29:39,500 --> 02:29:37,290
burn the clothes up in a distant being

3654
02:29:41,060 --> 02:29:39,510
completely different animals perhaps

3655
02:29:44,570 --> 02:29:41,070
representative of different kinds of

3656
02:29:46,550 --> 02:29:44,580
phenomena even very good point so so I

3657
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:46,560
think that a detailed study of an

3658
02:29:51,710 --> 02:29:48,450
individual experience thereof a closer

3659
02:29:53,020 --> 02:29:51,720
event would be potentially extremely

3660
02:29:55,550 --> 02:29:53,030
valuable but as you've indicated

3661
02:29:57,650 --> 02:29:55,560
extremely time-consuming especially when

3662
02:30:00,020 --> 02:29:57,660
applied to hundreds thousands or even

3663
02:30:01,880 --> 02:30:00,030
millions of people every ever many years

3664
02:30:03,500 --> 02:30:01,890
and this reminds me of in a Robert

3665
02:30:05,810 --> 02:30:03,510
saying that we need a sociological study

3666
02:30:07,460 --> 02:30:05,820
you know an in-depth academic

3667
02:30:09,590 --> 02:30:07,470
sociological study and perhaps them can

3668
02:30:12,350 --> 02:30:09,600
be gleaned over over a number of years

3669
02:30:15,620 --> 02:30:12,360
perhaps indeed it could but to get

3670
02:30:18,261 --> 02:30:15,630
something like that in the works on that

3671
02:30:21,500 --> 02:30:18,271
kind of scale that kind of level would

3672
02:30:24,350 --> 02:30:21,510
require a legitimization of UFO study

3673
02:30:26,960 --> 02:30:24,360
which is just not on the horizon with

3674
02:30:28,761 --> 02:30:26,970
the field as it currently is and as it

3675
02:30:31,100 --> 02:30:28,771
has been for a long long time right

3676
02:30:33,980 --> 02:30:31,110
because we are believers remember folks

3677
02:30:37,160 --> 02:30:33,990
we are et believers sociology that needs

3678
02:30:39,440 --> 02:30:37,170
needs to take the plunge ultimately mmm

3679
02:30:41,000 --> 02:30:39,450
yeah yeah I think so one of the things

3680
02:30:42,560 --> 02:30:41,010
I'd add is you know Briggs says that the

3681
02:30:44,360 --> 02:30:42,570
close encounter experiences

3682
02:30:46,850 --> 02:30:44,370
information-rich that we should be

3683
02:30:49,220 --> 02:30:46,860
studying these ones very closely because

3684
02:30:50,420 --> 02:30:49,230
they are new human experiences which he

3685
02:30:51,800 --> 02:30:50,430
calls you know their their frame marks

3686
02:30:54,110 --> 02:30:51,810
without benchmarks you know these are

3687
02:30:55,490 --> 02:30:54,120
things that nobody's got an example of

3688
02:30:57,470 --> 02:30:55,500
this before in their life and I think

3689
02:30:59,330 --> 02:30:57,480
for me the cases that are interesting

3690
02:31:01,220 --> 02:30:59,340
then are cases where the person doesn't

3691
02:31:03,650 --> 02:31:01,230
go on to become a contact he afterward

3692
02:31:05,300 --> 02:31:03,660
or continue to have sighting after

3693
02:31:07,220 --> 02:31:05,310
sighting after sighting and I think the

3694
02:31:10,160 --> 02:31:07,230
other cases that are interesting are any

3695
02:31:11,930 --> 02:31:10,170
multi witness case where you can kind of

3696
02:31:14,420 --> 02:31:11,940
get at witnesses independently to

3697
02:31:16,430 --> 02:31:14,430
describe what they saw and and start to

3698
02:31:18,890 --> 02:31:16,440
take a look at you know some comparison

3699
02:31:20,630 --> 02:31:18,900
and contrasts about who are the people

3700
02:31:21,890 --> 02:31:20,640
doing the seeing and how does that work

3701
02:31:23,570 --> 02:31:21,900
up against what they saw

3702
02:31:25,220 --> 02:31:23,580
and maybe there's something to be

3703
02:31:26,570 --> 02:31:25,230
learned inside of those differentiations

3704
02:31:28,430 --> 02:31:26,580
because certainly in a lot of the multi

3705
02:31:30,110 --> 02:31:28,440
witness cases people do give different

3706
02:31:31,400 --> 02:31:30,120
you know testimonies in terms of what

3707
02:31:33,350 --> 02:31:31,410
they saw there's generally the same

3708
02:31:34,850 --> 02:31:33,360
thing there but as Donald Hoffman says

3709
02:31:36,051 --> 02:31:34,860
there's no such thing as a public object

3710
02:31:37,761 --> 02:31:36,061
everybody's gonna see something unique

3711
02:31:39,680 --> 02:31:37,771
and different on their own and certainly

3712
02:31:41,841 --> 02:31:39,690
in the case of something as heightened

3713
02:31:44,180 --> 02:31:41,851
as a UFO experience and it's a close

3714
02:31:45,831 --> 02:31:44,190
encounter sighting you're gonna see

3715
02:31:47,390 --> 02:31:45,841
something probably vastly different than

3716
02:31:51,020 --> 02:31:47,400
the person sitting right beside you

3717
02:31:53,240 --> 02:31:51,030
there's more skew yeah yep yeah

3718
02:31:55,011 --> 02:31:53,250
well we've always been skewed up here

3719
02:31:57,501 --> 02:31:55,021
I'll tell you all right

3720
02:31:58,850 --> 02:31:57,511
that's certainly endless I'm not

3721
02:32:02,900 --> 02:31:58,860
touching that one I guess

3722
02:32:05,030 --> 02:32:02,910
both the Robbie's aren't either hey Jane

3723
02:32:09,230 --> 02:32:05,040
you're sitting in the engineers driver's

3724
02:32:11,091 --> 02:32:09,240
seat just seems like every episode I get

3725
02:32:13,640 --> 02:32:11,101
cut off right right when I'm getting to

3726
02:32:16,190 --> 02:32:13,650
my point well you know what if I could

3727
02:32:19,280 --> 02:32:16,200
control Skype I do that I have a lot

3728
02:32:21,230 --> 02:32:19,290
more power than I really do to make this

3729
02:32:22,791 --> 02:32:21,240
happen I have to think that you're out

3730
02:32:24,950 --> 02:32:22,801
in the wilderness living in the middle

3731
02:32:27,350 --> 02:32:24,960
of nowhere and that you have a working

3732
02:32:30,140 --> 02:32:27,360
internet connection at all in

3733
02:32:33,440 --> 02:32:30,150
America basically yeah that's I think an

3734
02:32:34,490 --> 02:32:33,450
appropriate analysis I'm in the

3735
02:32:36,831 --> 02:32:34,500
hinterlands here

3736
02:32:38,930 --> 02:32:36,841
yes ma'am we've been looking for hunters

3737
02:32:40,520 --> 02:32:38,940
for a long time or a hint of something

3738
02:32:43,461 --> 02:32:40,530
I'm not sure well we got a hint of

3739
02:32:46,700 --> 02:32:43,471
summer here let me see no it's 98

3740
02:32:49,820 --> 02:32:46,710
degrees here at UH 2:30 so that's not

3741
02:32:52,610 --> 02:32:49,830
too bad okay here it's 102 so it's

3742
02:32:54,621 --> 02:32:52,620
barely any different yeah I don't know

3743
02:32:57,051 --> 02:32:54,631
why we're talking about this where do we

3744
02:32:59,631 --> 02:32:57,061
go from here Robbie with this do we get

3745
02:33:01,881 --> 02:32:59,641
a volume two together please invite me

3746
02:33:03,530 --> 02:33:01,891
to contribute I'm just champing at the

3747
02:33:06,381 --> 02:33:03,540
bit and I want you to get our in

3748
02:33:08,390 --> 02:33:06,391
Greenfield yeah if I have considered

3749
02:33:10,761 --> 02:33:08,400
that there might be a volume too if

3750
02:33:14,001 --> 02:33:10,771
there is it won't be for another couple

3751
02:33:16,220 --> 02:33:14,011
years at this point but it's certainly

3752
02:33:18,171 --> 02:33:16,230
conceivable that there might be and

3753
02:33:20,060 --> 02:33:18,181
maybe even a volume three who knows but

3754
02:33:23,001 --> 02:33:20,070
if there is a volume two then Chris

3755
02:33:24,890 --> 02:33:23,011
consider yourself invited you and you

3756
02:33:27,410 --> 02:33:24,900
know this is several people have sort of

3757
02:33:28,910 --> 02:33:27,420
commented you know to me or they'd have

3758
02:33:31,700 --> 02:33:28,920
loved to have been involved in this and

3759
02:33:33,980 --> 02:33:31,710
stuff and I'd have loved to have had

3760
02:33:35,511 --> 02:33:33,990
more contributors I think

3761
02:33:37,820 --> 02:33:35,521
I think I just sort of cut it off a

3762
02:33:40,910 --> 02:33:37,830
certain point we ended up with a book

3763
02:33:43,551 --> 02:33:40,920
around 300 pages well exactly 300 pages

3764
02:33:46,370 --> 02:33:43,561
in fact and I think that's a pretty good

3765
02:33:48,860 --> 02:33:46,380
length for for something as dense as

3766
02:33:50,030 --> 02:33:48,870
this in terms of content it's it's it's

3767
02:33:55,730 --> 02:33:50,040
not an easy read

3768
02:33:57,500 --> 02:33:55,740
and certainly I'm I would expand I would

3769
02:33:59,421 --> 02:33:57,510
probably try to push in new areas in

3770
02:34:01,280 --> 02:33:59,431
volume too if there were volume to and

3771
02:34:04,761 --> 02:34:01,290
and yeah this I think there are enough

3772
02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:04,771
people on my radar now to fill a volume

3773
02:34:11,480 --> 02:34:08,010
two and a volume three with another 14

3774
02:34:14,421 --> 02:34:11,490
contributors apiece or more but I think

3775
02:34:17,240 --> 02:34:14,431
once we hit volume three again if if if

3776
02:34:18,640 --> 02:34:17,250
then I think we're probably exhausted

3777
02:34:20,600 --> 02:34:18,650
the amount of people who would be

3778
02:34:22,730 --> 02:34:20,610
appropriate for this kind of work

3779
02:34:26,720 --> 02:34:22,740
because I think there are very few

3780
02:34:28,430 --> 02:34:26,730
people sadly who I know maybe that maybe

3781
02:34:30,200 --> 02:34:28,440
maybe I'll be proven wrong maybe there

3782
02:34:33,051 --> 02:34:30,210
are what four more people out there who

3783
02:34:36,080 --> 02:34:33,061
are who are thinking along these lines

3784
02:34:40,131 --> 02:34:36,090
and who who have the ability to be able

3785
02:34:42,140 --> 02:34:40,141
to express this in in essay form and the

3786
02:34:43,520 --> 02:34:42,150
and the commitment to do it but the

3787
02:34:46,820 --> 02:34:43,530
combination of all of those things is

3788
02:34:49,461 --> 02:34:46,830
rare I think you'll notice ladies and

3789
02:34:54,680 --> 02:34:49,471
gentlemen I did not lie before myself I

3790
02:34:58,131 --> 02:34:54,690
can't do that okay I will not enter into

3791
02:34:59,680 --> 02:34:58,141
that at all okay so just realize when

3792
02:35:02,841 --> 02:34:59,690
was the last time you wrote anything

3793
02:35:05,091 --> 02:35:02,851
significant about UFOs gene outside of

3794
02:35:07,640 --> 02:35:05,101
your newsletter outside of my newsletter

3795
02:35:10,910 --> 02:35:07,650
when I was writing for caveat emptor

3796
02:35:15,011 --> 02:35:10,920
magazine I also wrote some articles for

3797
02:35:20,000 --> 02:35:15,021
some newsstand UFO magazines back in the

3798
02:35:22,940 --> 02:35:20,010
70s and 80s okay all right so but I'm

3799
02:35:27,470 --> 02:35:22,950
looking at an editorial I wrote about

3800
02:35:32,600 --> 02:35:27,480
the state of the UFO field in 1971 and I

3801
02:35:35,330 --> 02:35:32,610
could have written it yesterday I'm look

3802
02:35:36,171 --> 02:35:35,340
I read you the to your senses you ready

3803
02:35:43,011 --> 02:35:36,181
for this okay

3804
02:35:46,341 --> 02:35:43,021
believe me I believe you exactly exactly

3805
02:35:47,100 --> 02:35:46,351
and as the mystery deepens we find that

3806
02:35:49,320 --> 02:35:47,110
some of the

3807
02:35:51,810 --> 02:35:49,330
I'm talking about UFO researchers have

3808
02:35:54,301 --> 02:35:51,820
abandoned UFO investigation because of

3809
02:35:58,171 --> 02:35:54,311
disillusionment or frustration I also

3810
02:36:01,320 --> 02:35:58,181
said we have some strong ideas on the

3811
02:36:03,720 --> 02:36:01,330
subject and these same ideas cause us to

3812
02:36:07,171 --> 02:36:03,730
distrust many of the folks who purport

3813
02:36:09,511 --> 02:36:07,181
to be experts on UFOs little that the

3814
02:36:12,450 --> 02:36:09,521
so-called experts have done has

3815
02:36:14,970 --> 02:36:12,460
contributed one iota to the solution of

3816
02:36:18,091 --> 02:36:14,980
the UFO enigma that was written in the

3817
02:36:22,261 --> 02:36:18,101
spring of 1971 it could have been pulled

3818
02:36:24,240 --> 02:36:22,271
from an article yesterday right isn't

3819
02:36:25,740 --> 02:36:24,250
that incredible listen guys we're just

3820
02:36:28,051 --> 02:36:25,750
about to have time Robby Graham please

3821
02:36:30,060 --> 02:36:28,061
tell our listeners if they wanna know

3822
02:36:32,940 --> 02:36:30,070
more about this book and the stuff you

3823
02:36:35,461 --> 02:36:32,950
do where can they check you out you can

3824
02:36:37,650 --> 02:36:35,471
find a lot of the material related to

3825
02:36:40,980 --> 02:36:37,660
the book on my website which is Robbie

3826
02:36:42,570 --> 02:36:40,990
Graham UK it books available on Amazon

3827
02:36:44,881 --> 02:36:42,580
and Barnes and Noble and all of the

3828
02:36:47,910 --> 02:36:44,891
other online bookstores in paperback and

3829
02:36:50,251 --> 02:36:47,920
kindle and so it's out now and yeah so

3830
02:36:53,370 --> 02:36:50,261
my website Robbie gram dot UK one of our

3831
02:36:55,350 --> 02:36:53,380
forum members just posted a message he's

3832
02:36:56,700 --> 02:36:55,360
already downloaded the Kindle version of

3833
02:36:58,230 --> 02:36:56,710
the book that fast

3834
02:37:00,570 --> 02:36:58,240
even before the episode was broadcast

3835
02:37:01,950 --> 02:37:00,580
Robert do you have a site or anything we

3836
02:37:04,381 --> 02:37:01,960
could you know I used to have a slate

3837
02:37:06,570 --> 02:37:04,391
and then I I closed that one down so I'm

3838
02:37:08,490 --> 02:37:06,580
floating around you can hit me on the on

3839
02:37:10,831 --> 02:37:08,500
the pair of cast forums if you ever want

3840
02:37:13,110 --> 02:37:10,841
a message or ask any questions there but

3841
02:37:14,341 --> 02:37:13,120
I'm trying to keep a semi low profile a

3842
02:37:15,900 --> 02:37:14,351
lot of different things happening in

3843
02:37:17,761 --> 02:37:15,910
life all at once but this has been such

3844
02:37:19,110 --> 02:37:17,771
a great treat to participate in and

3845
02:37:20,850 --> 02:37:19,120
writing a piece for this book and

3846
02:37:23,190 --> 02:37:20,860
Robbie's been such a phenomenal editor

3847
02:37:26,131 --> 02:37:23,200
and allowed me to push word limit things

3848
02:37:28,051 --> 02:37:26,141
and stuff really kindly so I hope people

3849
02:37:29,940 --> 02:37:28,061
do take time to read the text it's got

3850
02:37:32,310 --> 02:37:29,950
some really interesting pieces in it we

3851
02:37:34,110 --> 02:37:32,320
can find Chris at our strange planet

3852
02:37:35,461 --> 02:37:34,120
calm Chris you've been a busy bee over

3853
02:37:37,530 --> 02:37:35,471
there putting up lots of really good

3854
02:37:39,511 --> 02:37:37,540
stuff yeah I have I've got lots of new

3855
02:37:42,301 --> 02:37:39,521
articles in and I really want to

3856
02:37:43,320 --> 02:37:42,311
re-emphasize the importance of this book

3857
02:37:46,650 --> 02:37:43,330
Robbie

3858
02:37:49,650 --> 02:37:46,660
Robert Greg everybody reptile junkie

3859
02:37:52,740 --> 02:37:49,660
Curt this is a really important book I

3860
02:37:55,020 --> 02:37:52,750
don't do this hardly ever but I do I

3861
02:37:56,940 --> 02:37:55,030
really recommend this book and I urge

3862
02:37:58,410 --> 02:37:56,950
you to go out and get it thanks so much

3863
02:38:00,570 --> 02:37:58,420
Dan thanks Chris

3864
02:38:03,330 --> 02:38:00,580
I have it here I've been reading

3865
02:38:05,160 --> 02:38:03,340
chapters here and there and I'll I will

3866
02:38:06,450 --> 02:38:05,170
finish this book it's right in front of

3867
02:38:09,511 --> 02:38:06,460
me it's right in front of my eyes right

3868
02:38:11,970 --> 02:38:09,521
now we could also check out after the

3869
02:38:14,551 --> 02:38:11,980
power cast our second radio show go to

3870
02:38:15,540 --> 02:38:14,561
plus dot for power cast com+ dr. power

3871
02:38:17,250 --> 02:38:15,550
cast calm

3872
02:38:20,730 --> 02:38:17,260
on the next episode you'll be hearing

3873
02:38:22,770 --> 02:38:20,740
from red pill junky another contributor

3874
02:38:24,690 --> 02:38:22,780
to this book in addition to after the

3875
02:38:26,310 --> 02:38:24,700
power cast we also give you the

3876
02:38:29,340 --> 02:38:26,320
commercial free version of this show and

3877
02:38:32,190 --> 02:38:29,350
lots of other goodies and for five-year

3878
02:38:35,310 --> 02:38:32,200
and lifetime memberships we offer free

3879
02:38:38,250 --> 02:38:35,320
print books how about that

3880
02:38:40,650 --> 02:38:38,260
Plus that the power cast calm prices

3881
02:38:43,620 --> 02:38:40,660
starting at just a dollar forty nine a

3882
02:38:46,680 --> 02:38:43,630
week our price cheap Robert Branstetter

3883
02:39:03,719 --> 02:38:46,690
Robby Graham thank you both for joining

3884
02:39:10,119 --> 02:39:07,239
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3885
02:39:13,139 --> 02:39:10,129
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3886
02:39:16,869 --> 02:39:13,149
presentation of making the impossible